Free will or lack of.......

[Mortimer Firewood]

3 hours ago, the village idiot said:

Mindfulness meditation practice.

 

1.Sit comfortably but upright.

2.Close your eyes (not compulsary but it helps)

3.Focus purely on the sensation of the breath wherever you feel it strongest

4.Repeat step 3 over and over and over again for the duration of your practice time.

 

The directions for this method of mindfulness meditation are very simple. The practice, as you will find, is somewhat more taxing.

 

Focusing purely on the breath without thinking about anything else. Easy, right? Try it. If you can do just 30 seconds you are some kind of wizard.

I think mindfulness is what got me through 14 months in a children's hospital intensive care unit. I was lucky to have a really good teacher. 

 When I first started I really struggled but can manage around 10 mins now but that 10 mins carryover through the day. It makes you a lot more aware of everything. 

  I feel that breath right down to my little Toe.  

There's times when I've not practiced as much my temper and ego come back. 

 

 

   

[the village idiot]

47 minutes ago, Mortimer Firewood said:

I think mindfulness is what got me through 14 months in a children's hospital intensive care unit. I was lucky to have a really good teacher. 

 When I first started I really struggled but can manage around 10 mins now but that 10 mins carryover through the day. It makes you a lot more aware of everything. 

  I feel that breath right down to my little Toe.  

There's times when I've not practiced as much my temper and ego come back. 

 

 

   

That's brilliant Mortimer Firewood.

 

This is exactly the kind of situation where mindfulness can be really valuable. A life saver in some instances.

 

It can also help with all of life's little annoyances, like WesD's frustration at the petrol garage. These seem petty, but they can mount up and cause real psychological harm over time.

 

Mindfulness can help keep you in an intrinsically content and balanced state of being.

 

This ability is fantastically beneficial and you can choose to continue to ride the overground train and generally make your life better. This is great, and is what most people use mindfulness for. 

 

There is an additional level which mindfulness meditation can provide access to (the underground train). This is where the truly profound insights sit waiting to be discovered. There is absolutely no obligation to go here, although it could materialise automatically if your practice is sustained enough.

 

If you watched the video, this is what Sam Harris is referring to when talking about the 'spiritual' nature of mindfulness meditation. The term 'spiritual' is wrapped up in all kinds of religious baggage. This is a shame because these transformational insights are available to all. You do not have to believe in a God.  Profoundity is constantly there, just below our perception, but you have to train your brain to 'see' it.

 

There are examples of people who have stumbled upon the transformative insights by accident. I can talk about these later on. But they are very rare. The vast majority of us have to put the work in.

 

I'm sure these utterances make me sound like a gullable old hippy, but I can assure you that I am a hugely sceptical person by nature. I am scientifically minded with what I believe to be a well tuned BS detector!

Edited December 28, 2017 by the village idiot

[Billhook]

6 hours ago, the village idiot said:

 

 

Perhaps we can leave that thought as 'just my opinion'. I don't want to distract too much from the purpose of this thread. I was just using it as an example of what I believe the benefits of mindful meditation could bring.

This is the part that I am unclear about.  Firstly you state that sense of self is an illusion, and all thoughts are coming from elsewhere, and yet you clearly give us your (individual?) thoughtful opinion on Trump.

[Mortimer Firewood]

2 hours ago, the village idiot said:

That's brilliant Mortimer Firewood.

 

This is exactly the kind of situation where mindfulness can be really valuable. A life saver in some instances.

 

It can also help with all of life's little annoyances, like WesD's frustration at the petrol garage. These seem petty, but they can mount up and cause real psychological harm over time.

 

Mindfulness can help keep you in an intrinsically content and balanced state of being.

 

This ability is fantastically beneficial and you can choose to continue to ride the overground train and generally make your life better. This is great, and is what most people use mindfulness for. 

 

There is an additional level which mindfulness meditation can provide access to (the underground train). This is where the truly profound insights sit waiting to be discovered. There is absolutely no obligation to go here, although it could materialise automatically if your practice is sustained enough.

 

If you watched the video, this is what Sam Harris is referring to when talking about the 'spiritual' nature of mindfulness meditation. The term 'spiritual' is wrapped up in all kinds of religious baggage. This is a shame because these transformational insights are available to all. You do not have to believe in a God.  Profoundity is constantly there, just below our perception, but you have to train your brain to 'see' it.

 

There are examples of people who have stumbled upon the transformative insights by accident. I can talk about these later on. But they are very rare. The vast majority of us have to put the work in.

 

I'm sure these utterances make me sound like a gullable old hippy, but I can assure you that I am a hugely sceptical person by nature. I am scientifically minded with what I believe to be a well tuned BS detector!

Tithe guy who taught me mindfulness studied under a Shamon in Australia for around 7 years and has been to many retreats. 

He is also a Bowen Therapist which I also get a great deal of. 

 We have spent hours discussing how Meditating Mindfulness and other things can help pain manegment addiction well being PTSD and a whole variety of other ailments. 

Hes and old hippy probably took far to much DMT but he's probably the only person I know that's completely at ease with everything. 

Keep it coming I'm quite enjoying your posts.  

[the village idiot]

1 hour ago, Mortimer Firewood said:

Tithe guy who taught me mindfulness studied under a Shamon in Australia for around 7 years and has been to many retreats. 

He is also a Bowen Therapist which I also get a great deal of. 

 We have spent hours discussing how Meditating Mindfulness and other things can help pain manegment addiction well being PTSD and a whole variety of other ailments. 

Hes and old hippy probably took far to much DMT but he's probably the only person I know that's completely at ease with everything. 

Keep it coming I'm quite enjoying your posts.  

Thanks for the comments Billhook and Mortimer. I'm hosting more family for the next couple of days but will try to keep up with posting, probably late evenings. If anyone tries some mindfulness practice do let us know how you get on.

[wjotner]

Just noticed this thread.

 

Gotta say guys, this is the last subject I would expect to find on a tree surgeon forum. But I am loving this. I've been wanting to get into meditation for a while, but have been wanting some good reading material to get me into it. But I don't want to go near any of the religiously linked mediation stuff.

 

Can any of you recommend any good, straightforward, secular books on this subject that aren't preachy or American style 'self-helpy' ?

[Billhook]

10 hours ago, the village idiot said:

Yes, absolutely. The self is like a mantlepiece where you put your stuff. Love it!

My argument is that you are not choosing what to put on the shelf. Ornaments pop into place and sometimes they stay, sometimes they disappear back to Oxfam. The ornaments in place at any particular point of your life define who you think you are, but in reality (I would argue) you are actually the shelf. 

 

It is a unique and concious shelf who's grain patterns ripple in response to the ornaments and everything else it interacts with, but a shelf none the less.

Reminds me of the original Brit Girls thread.  "Yer don't look at the mantlepiece when thar's stoking the fire!"

[the village idiot]

4 hours ago, Billhook said:

This is the part that I am unclear about.  Firstly you state that sense of self is an illusion, and all thoughts are coming from elsewhere, and yet you clearly give us your (individual?) thoughtful opinion on Trump.

Yes, the individual thoughtful opinion on Trump came from me, and your response came from you. There is no useful way around speaking in these terms. 

In fact you have to to form any kind of coherent sentence.

 

It would (in my estimation) be more accurate if I had of said the 'individual thoughtful opinion on Trump came from the brain that is part of this brain body combo that this brain tells this conciouness is me'. In the interests of word count and general intelligability the use of the words me, I, you and your need to stay in circulation.

 

In absolute terms, when I speak of 'me' I am referring to the brain body combo that is the village idiot. When I speak of 'you' I'm referring to the brain body combo that is Billhook.

 

It's a real minefield. One has to risk a few exploding devices of pronoun misappropriation to be able to communicate these ideas.

[the village idiot]

1 hour ago, wjotner said:

Just noticed this thread.

 

Gotta say guys, this is the last subject I would expect to find on a tree surgeon forum. But I am loving this. I've been wanting to get into meditation for a while, but have been wanting some good reading material to get me into it. But I don't want to go near any of the religiously linked mediation stuff.

 

Can any of you recommend any good, straightforward, secular books on this subject that aren't preachy or American style 'self-helpy' ?

Welcome aboard wjotner

 

It sounds like you want to approach this from the same starting point as me. There are loads of secular books on mindfulness meditation. If you browze Amazon and read the comments you can get a good feel for which books are purely science based and which hold onto elements of buddhist culture. They are all of value because they will all teach the same basic prinipals of practice (these are what matter) and buddhism is a relatively ungodly religion anyway.

 

Judging by your disposition it is probably best to avoid titles that sound anything like 'The path to eternal paradise' or 'Let the crystals lead you to nirvana' or '10 easy steps to eternal enlightenment'.

 

If you want to read more about the deeper realms of meditation you could try Sam Harris' 'Waking Up'. It is brutally secular and fairly heavy going in parts, but fascinating.

[wjotner]

18 minutes ago, the village idiot said:

If you want to read more about the deeper realms of meditation you could try Sam Harris' 'Waking Up'. It is brutally secular and fairly heavy going in parts, but fascinating.

Thanks village idiot. I'll check that one out.