Brexit ! what will this mean ? ( lets get a good thread going )

[Richard 1234]

37 minutes ago, javelin10 said:

I don't care where the laws come from so long as they are good laws. This lot we've got at the moment haven't got a clue. Like I said earlier, our biggest problems in the UK were caused by Westminster, not Brussels.

I'm sorry that's just grasping at straws. I'm not contradicting myself at all; smaller members have the same veto that everyone has, it's just that it's easier to buy off the smaller countries so they withdraw their veto, as in the recent trade deal with Canada. Belgium was holding the whole thing up for a while until the other members threw them a bone. You'd have to throw the UK a much bigger bone, that is all.

 

On your second point I think the Germans would agree; being by far the biggest net contributors. But I don't see Germany making serious noises about reforming the 'membership fee'.

 

There WAS nothing inevitable about ever closer union; many countries didn't want it, but without the UK holding it up for decades it will probably happen now as the balance of power shifts to France and Germany.

 

Those tax issues will be impossible to solve without the cooperation of the rest of the EU. If we try tell Google or Amazon 'pay your taxes or get lost' they could realistically get lost; they aren't going to tell the whole EU to get lost; that is just too much money to give up. This is how leaving the EU would actually represent a loss of sovereignty, not a gain. If the EU got their act together on tax havens (half of which we seem to own) then something could actually happen, especially if they persuaded the US to cooperate. On our own we won't accomplish diddly, in fact, it looks like our current government wants to give these fat cats an even easier ride.

 

Immigration was  a lot of it; anyone who thinks otherwise has a short memory; it was the number one topic and in the final weeks the main issue that leavers were pressing. As regards sticking two fingers up at the government; yes, that was what I said myself. But I think what they will now get is a double helping of the same old shit; and seeing as that was such a predictable outcome is what makes that 'two fingers' gesture so pathetic.

Not grasping at straws just reading what you wrote and commenting.

ever closer union was the slogan!

do you think the Google’s and amazons and apple don’t want the revenue from the uk? They would just get to keep less of it, prices would probably rise but still!

we dont know what will happen! Neither side has a crystal ball

[javelin10]

18 hours ago, matelot said:

Europe started off as a trade block. However it's clear that the EU is about making a super country called the EU. We've never been asked what we thought of this idea. You can't blame people for saying "FU EU". Has being in the EU been good for Greece? 

 

What about the rights of Brits? You think I like having to pay tax so that the Government gives it to the EU and EU migrants? You think Brits like competing for jobs with migrants that work for pitiful wages? You think Brits like EU migrants skipping the queue for things like council housing?

 

The EU should never have expanded to accept the old communist states. The standards of living are just too different between places like Poland and Germany.

France and Germany see closer union as the solution to some of the EU's problems. A few small countries plus the UK didn't and put the brakes on ever closer union for over two decades. It's quite possible that as a result of that federalisation I might one day agree it were better to leave one day, but not today. While we remained in the EU we could still make it work for us.

 

And yes I think it worked for us. The EU didn't cause Greece's debt problem; Greece did. For years they let everyone retire at 55 and never bothered collecting tax from everyone. They had plenty of power to bugger themselves up and they used it. Being in the euro meant they couldn't devalue to help their recovery but it didn't make them get themselves in a mess - they did that all themselves.

 

I think our rights as citizens and especially as workers are much safer in the EU then in the UK. Plenty of leading leavers, including the billionaire tax exiles that own all the eurosceptic newspapers want 'fire at will' laws and a sweat-shop economy. They couldn't get that under EU law so for a decade they demonised all EU migrants as scroungers and queue jumpers. The average EU migrant makes a greater contribution to our taxes than the average UK citizen, because they often have no children and the old folks don't come over. This is another brexit lie that took till after the campaign to be debunked.

 

The fact we have a low wages economy and not enough social housing is ENTIRELY the fault of Westminster policy over the last 40 years. It's got nothing to do with Brussels.

 

As far as accepting the old communist states; I wish it had happened slower, but they qualified so they got it. In 20 years time everyone in the EU will probably think it was a good move.

 

18 hours ago, Richard 1234 said:

Not grasping at straws just reading what you wrote and commenting.

ever closer union was the slogan!

do you think the Google’s and amazons and apple don’t want the revenue from the uk? They would just get to keep less of it, prices would probably rise but still!

we dont know what will happen! Neither side has a crystal ball

Or maybe they would make an example of us just to persuade the rest of Europe to let Luxembourg off the hook so they can continue paying risible tax rates. If you can make 16% more profit in the future EU due to a low-tax Luxembourg by cutting us out then it's makes sense to do so. This is the kind of thinking we do as business people, isn't it?

 

The whole tax thing is highly speculative though. The UK is probably the worst offender in Europe for tax havens and money laundering so I hardly see us leading the way on tightening up the soft tax laws.

[WesD]

3 minutes ago, javelin10 said:

The average EU migrant makes a greater contribution to our taxes than the average UK citizen, because they often have no children and the old folks don't come over. This is another brexit lie that took till after the campaign to be debunked.

Comparing an EU migrant to a UK citizen is like for like depending on salary surely however you chose to compare your migrant against a whole family kids and parents included without the use of a plural? That’s like bending facts to suit your argument is it not? I didn’t get a reply on yesterday’s post so I’m not too hopeful on one here either. 

 

If however we use your logic then surely 1 EU migrant will not pay as much tax as the UK citizen his/her kids when they grow up plus the tax the folks already paid?!

 

I have nothing against immigration on the whole however I think we should have a points/skills based criteria ala Australia so our nation truly benefits. 

 

Just a thought when immigrants come here to earn and leave their family’s at home be it parents or spouse and kids do you think the salary earned stays in the UK economy or do they send percentages of their salary home?

[matelot]

1 hour ago, javelin10 said:

 

I think our rights as citizens and especially as workers are much safer in the EU then in the UK. Plenty of leading leavers, including the billionaire tax exiles that own all the eurosceptic newspapers want 'fire at will' laws and a sweat-shop economy. They couldn't get that under EU law so for a decade they demonised all EU migrants as scroungers and queue jumpers. The average EU migrant makes a greater contribution to our taxes than the average UK citizen, because they often have no children and the old folks don't come over. This is another brexit lie that took till after the campaign to be debunked.

 

The fact we have a low wages economy and not enough social housing is ENTIRELY the fault of Westminster policy over the last 40 years. It's got nothing to do with Brussels.

 

Brits have had "rights" for the last 1000 years... The Magna Carta was signed in 1215.... We don't need the EU to give us "rights". Anyway, is the EU not more interested in giving criminals and terrorists "rights"? How many terrorists have avoided deportation because of EU Human Rights legislation?

 

Do you have any proof that EU migrants pay more tax than Brits? I'll be honest, if you cite anything by Professor Dustman I'll think you a bit of a fool

 

Ohhh, so millions of EU migrants haven't had any effect on social housing? What planet do you live on? Do you really want the green belt built on to accommodate millions of EU migrants? Do you really hate the countryside that much?

 

Of course millions of EU migrants have lowered wages in the UK!!!! Even Lord Rose (chairman of Bremain) said leaving the EU would increase wages!!!

[WesD]

1 hour ago, matelot said:

Ohhh, so millions of EU migrants haven't had any effect on social housing? What planet do you live on? Do you really want the green belt built on to accommodate millions of EU migrants? Do you really hate the countryside that much?

Green belt is already being ravaged to be built on and with lots of councils up and down the country having there 15 year plans re-written being in or out of the EU won’t change this. 

[WesD]

I found Mr Barniers point very interesting the other day when we conceded that we’d allow immigrants already here a visa to stay pending criminal checks he said no they stay without criminal checks!

 

Who have we taken in and what have they to hide?

 

hmm 

[skyhuck]

13 hours ago, javelin10 said:

France and Germany see closer union as the solution to some of the EU's problems. A few small countries plus the UK didn't and put the brakes on ever closer union for over two decades. It's quite possible that as a result of that federalisation I might one day agree it were better to leave one day, but not today. While we remained in the EU we could still make it work for us.

 

And yes I think it worked for us. The EU didn't cause Greece's debt problem; Greece did. For years they let everyone retire at 55 and never bothered collecting tax from everyone. They had plenty of power to bugger themselves up and they used it. Being in the euro meant they couldn't devalue to help their recovery but it didn't make them get themselves in a mess - they did that all themselves.

 

I think our rights as citizens and especially as workers are much safer in the EU then in the UK. Plenty of leading leavers, including the billionaire tax exiles that own all the eurosceptic newspapers want 'fire at will' laws and a sweat-shop economy. They couldn't get that under EU law so for a decade they demonised all EU migrants as scroungers and queue jumpers. The average EU migrant makes a greater contribution to our taxes than the average UK citizen, because they often have no children and the old folks don't come over. This is another brexit lie that took till after the campaign to be debunked.

 

The fact we have a low wages economy and not enough social housing is ENTIRELY the fault of Westminster policy over the last 40 years. It's got nothing to do with Brussels.

 

As far as accepting the old communist states; I wish it had happened slower, but they qualified so they got it. In 20 years time everyone in the EU will probably think it was a good move.

 

Or maybe they would make an example of us just to persuade the rest of Europe to let Luxembourg off the hook so they can continue paying risible tax rates. If you can make 16% more profit in the future EU due to a low-tax Luxembourg by cutting us out then it's makes sense to do so. This is the kind of thinking we do as business people, isn't it?

 

The whole tax thing is highly speculative though. The UK is probably the worst offender in Europe for tax havens and money laundering so I hardly see us leading the way on tightening up the soft tax laws.

Do you really believe all this drivel? 

 

The UK has alway lead the world on workers rights and we still do, UK workers have better rights and benefits than many in the EU.

 

How can an immigrant have possibly contributed as much as an old person whose payed tax their whole working life?

 

The difference between Brussels screwing up our lives and Westminster doing the same, is that we can vote out the clowns in Westminster. Do your really not see the difference? Plus without the ability to blame Brussels Westminster can better be held to account!

 

The idea the Amazon etc, would cease trading in the UK because of taxation is utterly laughable.

[matelot]

10 hours ago, WesD said:

Green belt is already being ravaged to be built on and with lots of councils up and down the country having there 15 year plans re-written being in or out of the EU won’t change this. 

 

 

"Migrants make up eight in ten new households over the past 15 years, new figures reveal"

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5083647/Migration-report-builds-pressure-new-housing.html#ixzz4ya2BEDul

 

[WesD]

1 hour ago, matelot said:

 

 

"Migrants make up eight in ten new households over the past 15 years, new figures reveal"

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5083647/Migration-report-builds-pressure-new-housing.html#ixzz4ya2BEDul

 

It doesn’t matter the 15 year plans have already changed they won’t change them again. 

 

Greenbelt is already being built built on in massive proportions this will not be reversed. 

 

It is is far easier for builders to build on virgin land than it is to regenerate brownfield. 

 

We we are already playing catch up on housing so it’s carry on as is until there is no demand which will be never be the case housing will always concertina. 

[matelot]

37 minutes ago, WesD said:

It doesn’t matter the 15 year plans have already changed they won’t change them again. 

 

Greenbelt is already being built built on in massive proportions this will not be reversed. 

 

It is is far easier for builders to build on virgin land than it is to regenerate brownfield. 

 

We we are already playing catch up on housing so it’s carry on as is until there is no demand which will be never be the case housing will always concertina. 

I think most people are against greenbelt being built on. You reduce immigration and you reduce the amount of greenbelt that is built on... On the news this morning Labour were saying we need so many new houses in the UK. Tbh, if we get a hard Brexit and EU migrants are forced to leave the UK we wouldn't need to build any more houses and the greenbelt will be saved....

 

Come on Wes, you seem one of the smarter people here, surely you can see that?