Media Brainwashing

[Mesterh]

1 minute ago, Mesterh said:

Hey its this or X factor.

 

 

 

 

Im thinking of getting this engraved on my tombstone next week.

 

Well, hopefully not next week but it will be if I have to watch that TV program.

 

 

 

 

[Bolt]

31 minutes ago, stihlmadasever said:

You cant argue with with matelot when it comes to immigration...

 

 

 

You can't argue with him, simply because he won't answer a question.

 

You ask a basic questions,  and he replies with a statement. 

 

He may as well be a politician. 

 

 

Hmmmmmmmm,  I wonder if he would be interested at gaining office at Tower Hamlets  (although considering his earlier Tower Hamlets faux pas, I should think not).

 

[Bolt]

1 hour ago, tony_t3d said:

Can you both not see how stubborn you look now?

Going around in circles with the same argument neither of you will change the opinion of the other.

 

 

Stubborn? How rude.  I am bloody minded, I will have you know.

 

I have no interest in changing anyone's mind (fwiw).

 

I just wanted to take the all fun out of peddling political propaganda on an Arboricultural forum.

 

I think I have managed that.

 

I am biased I know, but in my opinion, this thread, although 'active', has not gone the way the op intended.

 

Here we are, taking the mick, and spreading ridicule.  Where has the op gone?

Edited November 5, 2017 by Bolt

[Vespasian]

2 hours ago, Mesterh said:

Now that sounds like a plan.. 

 

Ooops, looks like it went down hill fairly quickly!

 

I think matelot and vespian could got some of their points across better if they didn't sound like crazy hating crazymen. You really are not doing yourselves a favour. Honesty you sound like a big fat white texan shouting that black men are eating our women and sleeping with our food. 

Immigration is a toxic subject, but it is, or was, the number one concern on the doorstep..

 

As a scientific socialist, (by that I mean good social policy aught be science based) I have to look at immigration as  much as I can in a scientific manner..

 

Which is unfortunate as some of the science is pretty troubling.. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[matelot]

15 hours ago, Bolt said:

 

What have migrants ever done for the UK.  #1

 

 

Genetic Diversity.

 

Migrants have provided the UK with a world beating genetic diversity.  The DNA of every brit can be traced back to peoples from all over the world.

 

If you get your DNA tested, it will probably worry you as you will not be as 'Brit' as you think.

 

Some 'societies' spurn or are scared of genetic diversity.  You may differ, but I think shagging your cousins is not a good thing, Hybrid vigour? that is a good thing.  

 

Britain has always been choc full of hybrid vigour.

Hybrid vigour leads to change, leads to progress, leads to advantage.

 

I can understand why some people may be afraid of this, but that is why migration has always been good for the UK.

 

 

As an aside, consider the diversity of the kids putting themselves forward for young mayor of tower hamlets.  Look how smart they look. Look at their confidence.  They are striving forward towards a career in politics.  They will make your future.  They will not be selling big issue, or spitting in the fries in McDonalds, or watching Jeremy Kyle in a stained pair of Y fronts.

That image was a tragic own goal to the 'all immigrants are rubbish' argument.

Of all kids in the UK, why are people in the UK why were these kids singled out to 'scare' us?  

Here is the rub, and maybe it explains the difference in your concerns for the UK and mine.

 

The Britain you move in and experience seems to consist of car washers, nail technicians, big issue sellers and fast food staff.

 

 

Possibly understandably, I move in a slightly different world.

 

I see big business, I see tech firms, I see massive infrastructure projects, I see the education business.

 

The movers and shakers in these firms sometimes don't look exactly like 'us' (I assume that like me you are white, male, and middle aged).  You would probably think of them as 'migrants', I just think of them as people.  Good smart, dependable people, good at their jobs and true to their word.  People who have great ideas and get stuff done.

 

The minds behind those firms, and the minds creating that wealth are going to be pumping millions into the system when you are old and having your ungrateful arse wiped for you.  

 

I wonder who will be doing the wiping.

 

 

OK, so to sum up your very long post (which I doubt many people will read) immigration is good due to "genetic diversity" and because we've always had immigration.

 

We've accepted a lot of migrants from cultures that have largely failed. Why is accepting migrants from a failed culture good for Brits? You can see parts of Britain are starting to replicate the failed cultures the migrants came from. Do you honestly think the migrants arriving in Britain over the last 50 years have made the UK a better place to live?

 

Here is a pic of the flower display after the Machester bombing. Do you think the deaths of 22, hundreds injured, and tens of thousands of traumatised children is a price worth paying for "genetic diversity"? If we wanted "genetic diversity" could we not have got some hot Russian woman instead of people that hate us?

 

Dont get me wrong, I think some migrants are good, however it's fairly clear the previous/ present migration system isn't working.

 

 

[matelot]

9 hours ago, Bolt said:

 

OK, so all that genetic diversity did not float your boat... this one is far more up your alley.

 

What have migrants ever done for the UK. #2  They saved the NHS, and made it what it is!

 

Yep, this is going to be a shocker.

 

 

 

Migrants SAVING the NHS!!! that can't be right.

What on earth has the Daily Mail been playing at????? You can't trust anyone.

 

Well here is my hypotheses.

I have done the minimal amount of research, so you should be able to have a good smash at this!

 

Migrant workers have been saving the NHS since 1949. That's about a year after it was founded.
(I have chosen the NHS in order to 'turn your argument back in itself')

 

Here is the logic...
The NHS is publicly funded, and free at the point on use.  This 'free at the point of use' idea is I think the cause of your concern for the NHS.  Clearly someone cocked up right at the beginning with this concept, but luckily, migrant workers have stepped in and saved the day, right from the off.  How annoying is that.

 

Yep, right from 1949!

In order to allow costs to be controlled and service provided, successive governments have recruited staff for the NHS from abroad since 1949.

 

The details are easily available.

 

Governments has spent millions on this as it provides a cost effective way of staffing the NHS at all levels, from bedpan emptier, to consultant surgeon.  They have spent millions on recruiting overseas to not only save tens and tens of millions over the years on the wage bill, but what is more, they also fill the jobs that the 'native population' just won't do.  Won't do now, wouldn't do back then.

 

Millions, and millions and millions saved!

 

Migrant workers have been saving the NHS since 1949.  Without them there is NO WAY that the NHS could look like it currently does.  That's the NHS that you hold sooooo dear.

 

OK. That's my research done, lets go for the 'first hand experience' bit

 

Naturally it is only the non-taxpaying migrant users of the NHS that concerns you.  Are they all here for health care tourism?  I wonder what the typical aliments are that they suffer?  

 

 

The reason I ask is that I frequent hospitals quite often (A+E and wards).  Here is what I see...

 

A+E... Lots of chavs and white trash who have got pissed up and injured themselves.  Their behaviour is colourful, (but understandable due to their genetic heritage). I don't think they are net contributors to the NHS to be honest.

 

Wards... generally white middle aged men who haven't looked after themselves, or white workers who have got injured at work.

NHS Staff... all grades, the majority i think you would refer to as 'migrants'.

Of the hospitals i have been in (in cities with high ethnic diversity), I really can't remember seeing that many 'migrants' lying about in beds.  Maybe they are out-patients?

 

So, there you have it.

 

Migrants SAVING the NHS.

 

 

 

 

NOOOOOOOOOOoooooooooooooo.

 

 

 

Ok, thanks for another very long post. 

 

The problems facing the NHS appear to be primarily financial. There's simply not enough money to treat everyone that wants to get treated. Migrants coming to Britain earning less than circa £35k are a drain to the taxpayer. Having millions of extra people that don't pay their way is a burden for the NHS (and other public services)... Or maybe you've found some magic money trees?

 

I don't have a problem with allowing skilled workers into the NHS... However we should all realise that by allowing migrant nurses in etc we are then putting pressure on other public services like schools and housing. Far better to train our own nurses first. 

 

Anyway, are you really cool robbing medical staff from the third world? Maybe you don't really care if Indians die because the NHS has robbed all India's nurses?

Edited November 6, 2017 by matelot

[Bolt]

I doubt anyone will read it.

 

It was aimed at you.

 

You broadly claim that migrants are bad.

 

This is a meaningless argument as the context is too broad.  Just to be a dick, I go back to the beginning of history to emphasis your lazy argument.

 

Now you have narrowed you argument to the 'work' of a single person.  That is just as careless.

 

Of course he was an unspeakable twat.  Who's view is going to differ.

 

You have gone from one extreme (all migrants - ever) to an individual!  Is that the definition of an extreme view?

 

 

 

[Bolt]

15 hours ago, matelot said:

Ok, thanks for another very long post. 

 

The problems facing the NHS appear to be primarily financial. There's simply not enough money to treat everyone that wants to get treated. Migrants coming to Britain earning less than circa £35k are a drain to the taxpayer. Having millions of extra people that don't pay their way is a burden for the NHS (and other public services)... Or maybe you've found some magic money trees?

 

I don't have a problem with allowing skilled workers into the NHS... However we should all realise that by allowing migrant nurses in etc we are then putting pressure on other public services like schools and housing. Far better to train our own nurses first. 

 

Anyway, are you really cool robbing medical staff from the third world? Maybe you don't read ally care if Indians die because the NHS has robbed all India's nurses?

 

It the problems of the NHS are financial, then that is an issue for the managers and the government,  not the service users. 

 

 

 

Are you really going to keep this up for a fourth day?  Didn't you have a bad enough time yesterday?

 

 

Edited November 6, 2017 by Bolt

[Bolt]

5 minutes ago, matelot said:

 

Anyway, are you really cool robbing medical staff from the third world? Maybe you don't read ally care if Indians die because the NHS has robbed all India's nurses?

 

 

My posts are long to get on you tits and deter innocent bi-standers from reading them.

 

 

NHS 'robbing' Indian nurses?  Well, that a turn of face. Yesterday you were the saviour of the NHS, and today you a slagging them off on a public forum.  

 

Maybe politics is not for you after all

 

[Bolt]

 

Any more to add.

 

I can keep this up all day.