7.5 ton iveco with forst st8

[kevinjohnsonmbe]

We already have the Unimogs on Ag just sick of the grey area and want to move to white and opl.

 

 

 

When it comes to cost I try to look at true cost to the company, loss of earnings/wages whilst the employee is on the course hence why it will cost us £3200 per employee. Which sounds a lot bit of course you have to look at the benefit it will then bring.

 

 

There is also the question of wether, or not, you (or yr accountant) seek to off set training costs as a business expense to relieve annual tax liability.

 

I've found that some accountants will, and some won't and that HMRC appear to operate on a desk officers "opinion" rather than a definitive policy position - it remains an outstanding dispute in my affairs with HMRC.

 

It's a bit of an aside to the main thrust but relevant to calculating real cost of training.

 

I've found some accountants to be happy to submit as a business operating cost, others not so, and HMRC standing by the assertion that training (for a new skill) is classed as an intangible benefit to the business and ineligible for submission as a business expense.

 

This is an arguable point (I'm arguing - no surprise) that legislative requirements - first aid, NPTC refreshers, CPC etc are mandatory rather than optional and as such are / should be an eligible business expense. I expect to win the point on Continuation training but the jury's out on the new skill aspect.

 

Can do more detail if anyone interested?

[Marc]

Interesting Kevin, I'll check with our accountant how this is done.

 

When I started out I always put CPD through my accounts without issue as a legitimate business expense.

 

In the scheme of things it's a small outlay with hopefully a big capacity return.

[TIMON]

We already have the Unimogs on Ag just sick of the grey area and want to move to white and opl.

 

 

 

When it comes to cost I try to look at true cost to the company, loss of earnings/wages whilst the employee is on the course hence why it will cost us £3200 per employee. Which sounds a lot bit of course you have to look at the benefit it will then bring.

 

 

We ran our Mog on white but it was AG registered (we already had an ops licence for other trucks). When we got dipped by HMRC/DVSA and they saw we were running on white they went straight on their way satisfied with no further questions. I guess pouncing on a Mog could be a daunting prospect for a roadside check. [emoji106]

 

 

Timon.

[Craig.]

thinking about it, the chipper was more like 2.5 ton, but yes, filled to the rafters, still well overloaded, when plated as 7.5 ton.

As it's essentially the same truck as a 10 ton maybe it should be up-plated to 10.

 

 

Nick Bailey Manchester Tree Surgeons - tree surgery, tree pruning and tree felling

 

I think the 10 tonners, have 8 stud axles, the older ivecos which had the model numbers in between the upper and lower side windows where something like, 75e150 (7.5ton 150hp) had 6 stud axles, and factory down rated 10tonners where 80e150 (can have other hp ratings) and had 8 stud axles.

[Marc]

We ran our Mog on white but it was AG registered (we already had an ops licence for other trucks). When we got dipped by HMRC/DVSA and they saw we were running on white they went straight on their way satisfied with no further questions. I guess pouncing on a Mog could be a daunting prospect for a roadside check. [emoji106]

 

 

Timon.

 

A lady I worked for in the Cotswolds had an army Daf with hiab Ag reg. loaded with timber from a roadside contract running on red, got pulled on the A40 and dipped. It ended up going to court where she stated chapter and verse and walked away, thing is she read the whole rule book.

 

As far as I am aware you can haul arb arisings away from a contract in a Mog running on red back to your yard. We then sell the arisings as a product from there which is hauled away in walking floor artics as a product.

 

But like I said grey areas, I for one can't see how you can be ag reg yet pay duty on fuel, but agree some will walk away once dipping the tank and finding only white.

[TIMON]

A lady I worked for in the Cotswolds had an army Daf with hiab Ag reg. loaded with timber from a roadside contract running on red, got pulled on the A40 and dipped. It ended up going to court where she stated chapter and verse and walked away, thing is she read the whole rule book.

 

 

 

As far as I am aware you can haul arb arisings away from a contract in a Mog running on red back to your yard. We then sell the arisings as a product from there which is hauled away in walking floor artics as a product.

 

 

 

But like I said grey areas, I for one can't see how you can be ag reg yet pay duty on fuel, but agree some will walk away once dipping the tank and finding only white.

 

 

It is confusing. I remember reading that an AG reg vehicle is okay for Arb work until you start using it for "haulage" I.e chip and arisings. Forestry and horticulture purposes are ok as well I think but I'm not sure if mileage restrictions apply.

Domestic Arb while running on red is asking for trouble because that's when they want to impound the vehicle and squeeze the revenue they believe has been evaded.

By running on white I believe you take the potential sting out of the situation.

Provided the vehicle is in good order I think it is unlikely that they would press you too hard on the discrepancies of vehicle classification. Maybe...

 

 

 

 

Timon.

[nailer]

Craig, you know your Ivecos!

Mogs are great and all but if you don't need to go off road, I'd want to stick with a truck. The bed height of a Mog is very high for loading any logs by hand and even the long wheelbase Mogs have less chip volume capacity than our 7.5 tonners. And unless you run a Mog on white, with an operators licence, driving on any stretch of motorway is off-limits. In, and around Manchester, that would be very restrictive!

 

 

http://www.nickbaileytreeservices.co.uk

[Marc]

Craig, you know your Ivecos!

Mogs are great and all but if you don't need to go off road, I'd want to stick with a truck. The bed height of a Mog is very high for loading any logs by hand and even the long wheelbase Mogs have less chip volume capacity than our 7.5 tonners. And unless you run a Mog on white, with an operators licence, driving on any stretch of motorway is off-limits. In, and around Manchester, that would be very restrictive!

 

 

Nick Bailey Manchester Tree Surgeons - tree surgery, tree pruning and tree felling

 

We have a legal payload of 6/7ton depending on rear axle configuration which is a healthy whack of chip and we can easily fit that in the back, you have answered your own question though Nick the 7.5tonner is the ideal set-up for your needs, no 2 companies are the same and I wouldn't want to operate a Unimog where you are.

[openspaceman]

It is confusing. I remember reading that an AG reg vehicle is okay for Arb work until you start using it for "haulage" I.e chip and arisings. Forestry and horticulture purposes are ok as well I think but I'm not sure if mileage restrictions apply.

 

 

AFAICS and I have never owned or used a fast tractor: ag, forestry and horticulture are allowed for both tractor and rebated fuel but as soon as a load is carried or hauled the radius restriction is 15 mile after which operator's licence is required.

 

Thereby hangs a tale about shipping chipped forestry tops to a power station using fastracs the perpetrator was fined but claimed he was better off as it forced him to use lorries and his overall costs went down.

 

 

 

Domestic Arb while running on red is asking for trouble because that's when they want to impound the vehicle and squeeze the revenue they believe has been evaded. By running on white I believe you take the potential sting out of the situation.

Provided the vehicle is in good order I think it is unlikely that they would press you too hard on the discrepancies of vehicle classification.

 

Except that running on rebated fuel is allowed for domestic tree surgery, but not hard landscaping. You are free to used DERV and HM Revenue & Customs may be happy with that and turn a blind eye about licence and op licence infringements, or probably don't realise the requirements.

 

The problems arise when working on trees in commercial or industrial sites, then they take the view you cannot use rebated fuel as it is not ag hort or forestry related, then of course if your outfit exceeds 7.5 tonnes you are in the situation of evasion of road fund duty, require a HGV licence and tacho, operator's licence and driver cpc.

 

There is also the anomalous situation whereby you could drive to mow a school playing field using rebated fuel on a self propelled mower but not in an agricultural machine with mower. It is also confusing that HM Revenue say it is only interested when the machine is used on roads maintained at public expense which is very different from land covered by the road traffic act,

 

I'm still not quite sure of the position if I took my county and trailer (over 8.25 tonne so more than my C1+E allows) to a local show, I know I should use DERV after flushing the tank but what about the rest?

 

Having said all that I was only ever stopped for not displaying a number plate and I know several firms that transport diggers behind agricultural tractors, my old firm shifted yards using the JD and low loader with no problem.