Mini Artic

[openspaceman]

 

The idea being, you find the best train weight unit then downlplate it to 3.5 tons so you can then claim the B + E class, the vehicle keeps its original train weight and there is the kicker.

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It's a cunning plan Donnk I'm waiting to hear other thoughts but:

 

1 It will only work with a drawbar trailer as the Atego will weigh near 3.5 tonne unladen so you cannot super impose the semi trailer weight.

 

2 It requires an operator’s licence as the unladen weight of the trailer will exceed 1ton

 

3 It will require a tachograph as soon as the total weight exceeds 7.5 tonnes.

 

To my mind there are going to be many crews aged under 40 with only B licence, it makes sense for them to get B+E. I know at my last firm there were only 4 or 5 of us left with pre 97 licence and grandfather's rights, the vast majority of the youngsters only had B and they will become more dominant part of the workforce. So the maximum GTW most of the workforce may use after taking B+E is 7 tonnes. An Iveco Daily and trailer will do this.. The only advantage of the mini artic then becomes shifting a heavier than 3tonne load on a semi trailer. The 5th wheel mini artic is actually a bit heavy but some of the ball hitches, legal in the Netherlands, but possibly not homologated in UK, do offer the possibility of continuing to use the tow vehicle as a pick up and still being able to carry about 4tonnes in one lump on a semi trailer.

[donnk]

It's a cunning plan Donnk I'm waiting to hear other thoughts but:

 

1 It will only work with a drawbar trailer as the Atego will weigh near 3.5 tonne unladen so you cannot super impose the semi trailer weight.

 

2 It requires an operator’s licence as the unladen weight of the trailer will exceed 1ton

 

3 It will require a tachograph as soon as the total weight exceeds 7.5 tonnes.

 

To my mind there are going to be many crews aged under 40 with only B licence, it makes sense for them to get B+E. I know at my last firm there were only 4 or 5 of us left with pre 97 licence and grandfather's rights, the vast majority of the youngsters only had B and they will become more dominant part of the workforce. So the maximum GTW most of the workforce may use after taking B+E is 7 tonnes. An Iveco Daily and trailer will do this.. The only advantage of the mini artic then becomes shifting a heavier than 3tonne load on a semi trailer. The 5th wheel mini artic is actually a bit heavy but some of the ball hitches, legal in the Netherlands, but possibly not homologated in UK, do offer the possibility of continuing to use the tow vehicle as a pick up and still being able to carry about 4tonnes in one lump on a semi trailer.

 

Your confusing train weight. Once a trailer is hooked up you go on train weight + axle weights. The rear axle on a daily is 6 tons so plenty.

 

Restricted O licence inst an issue. Tacho exempt.

 

As long as I can get our 5 ton digger + buckets on a low loader trailer I'll be happy. Should be easy enough 10.5ton train weight on a daily.

[aspenarb]

Have a quick squint at this thread Donk, an RB44 7.5 tonner has a train weight of 11 tons and would easily downplate to 3.5 tons. It would also tow a house.

 

http://arbtalk.co.uk/forum/arb-trucks/80192-rb44.html

 

Bob

[donnk]

thats certainly an interesting bit of kit! I'm going to order new though I think as it will be a keeper.

[openspaceman]

Your confusing train weight. Once a trailer is hooked up you go on train weight + axle weights. The rear axle on a daily is 6 tons so plenty.

 

I was commenting on the Atego then suggesting what could be done with Daily. Which daily has the 6 tonne axle weight and can it be down plated to 3.5? I'd like to see the cite on this as I think the towing veihicle can not exceed 3.5 tonnes even with the semi trailer super imposed.

 

Tacho exempt.

 

never once you exceed 7.5 tonnes

 

 

As long as I can get our 5 ton digger + buckets on a low loader trailer I'll be happy. Should be easy enough 10.5ton train weight on a daily.

 

I think with a mini artic GTW of 8.25 tonnes and a 107 note restricted C1+E you'd be lucky to make that weight and if I'm right about the B+E then you will need a drawbar trailer or one that superimposes litlle on the tow vehicle.

[donnk]

I was commenting on the Atego then suggesting what could be done with Daily. Which daily has the 6 tonne axle weight and can it be down plated to 3.5? I'd like to see the cite on this as I think the towing veihicle can not exceed 3.5 tonnes even with the semi trailer super imposed. never once you exceed 7.5 tonnes

 

 

 

I think with a mini artic GTW of 8.25 tonnes and a 107 note restricted C1+E you'd be lucky to make that weight and if I'm right about the B+E then you will need a drawbar trailer or one that superimposes litlle on the tow vehicle.

 

you need to re-read the B+E licence again. there are NO weight limits for trailer on pre97 licence.

 

This is a 3.5tonner vehicle full stop. You are getting confused and adding the trailer weight to arrive at a 7.5ton vehicle which it isnt. Please see above.

 

All the iveco's from 3.5-7.2 ton have the same 6 ton rear axle rating (twin wheeler of course), you can read it on the website.

[openspaceman]

you need to re-read the B+E licence again. there are NO weight limits for trailer on pre97 licence..

 

No I don't, I am perfectly aware of the trailer weight issue and have discussed it here a lot with Justme.

 

This is a 3.5tonner vehicle full stop. You are getting confused and adding the trailer weight to arrive at a 7.5ton vehicle which it isnt. Please see above..

 

I'm not adding trailer weight, just that portion super imposed on the hitch..

 

All the iveco's from 3.5-7.2 ton have the same 6 ton rear axle rating (twin wheeler of course), you can read it on the website.

 

I'll take your word for that, so a 3.5 tonne

Iveco can be driven on B, it can pull a trailer on B+E, it's GTW is 7 tonne. So the maximum trailer it can pull is a 3.5 tonne drawbar or a semi trailer which imposes no more than about 1.5 tonne on the hitch and grosses about 5.5 tonne

 

You can downplate a larger vehicle to 3.5 to drive it on a B and if your licence for B+E is pre 2013 it looks like you can tow a trailer up to the GTW of the downplated vehicle but the vehicle can not exceed 3.5 tonne.

[donnk]

No I don't, I am perfectly aware of the trailer weight issue and have discussed it here a lot with Justme.

 

I'm not adding trailer weight, just that portion super imposed on the hitch..

 

I'll take your word for that, so a 3.5 tonne

Iveco can be driven on B, it can pull a trailer on B+E, it's GTW is 7 tonne. So the maximum trailer it can pull is a 3.5 tonne drawbar or a semi trailer which imposes no more than about 1.5 tonne on the hitch and grosses about 5.5 tonne

 

You can downplate a larger vehicle to 3.5 to drive it on a B and if your licence for B+E is pre 2013 it looks like you can tow a trailer up to the GTW of the downplated vehicle but the vehicle can not exceed 3.5 tonne.

 

Again no, where you getting this 'adding the weight' from ? Please link up to the regs on that. I've already said multiple times axle limits should must be observed.

 

The GTW for the downplated daily is 10.5 ton or 10.8 for the auto not 7 as you suggest, not sure where you are getting that from, more than enough for 5-6 ton of cargo.

 

Also you seem to have an issue with 'drawbars' whats that about ? Again link up the regs.

 

The vehicle remains 3.5 ton irrespective of how much weight is on the trailer.

 

I think I've repeated this enough now

[openspaceman]

The GTW for the downplated daily is 10.5 ton or 10.8 for the auto not 7 as you suggest, not sure where you are getting that from, more than enough for 5-6 ton of cargo.

 

I may well be missing the point.

 

What are the relevant before and after downplating weights of a 10.5 GTW Iveco daily?

 

What is the unladen weight?

 

What configuration is the trailer you are contemplating?

[josharb87]

In you have on your driving licence B + E pre jan 97 then you are only limited in the weight you can tow with a 3.5ton vehicle to the vehicles plated train weight.

 

The idea being, you find the best train weight unit then downlplate it to 3.5 tons so you can then claim the B + E class, the vehicle keeps its original train weight and there is the kicker.

 

The merc atego is a bit extreme at nearly 19ton train minus the weight of the tractor and trailer should till have a cargo capacity of at least 15 tons once downplated. Pretty mad right but thems the rules.

 

Thanks for the response

 

What is the unladen weight of the atego?