A public "good" must be paid for from the public purse

[kevinjohnsonmbe]

Night Kev!

 

 

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That was too late for me!! 💤

 

Good question mind, certainly politicians, perhaps not farmers (in reality, who is ever going to say "no, don't give that money to me, give it to someone more needing!", and possibly all of US, the electorate, should be voicing our opinions to the politicians.

[Mull]

That was too late for me!! [emoji99]

 

Good question mind, certainly politicians, perhaps not farmers (in reality, who is ever going to say "no, don't give that money to me, give it to someone more needing!", and possibly all of US, the electorate, should be voicing our opinions to the politicians.

 

 

[emoji106].....

 

 

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[drinksloe]

That was too late for me!! 💤

 

Good question mind, certainly politicians, perhaps not farmers (in reality, who is ever going to say "no, don't give that money to me, give it to someone more needing!", and possibly all of US, the electorate, should be voicing our opinions to the politicians.

 

I think u have the answer there. the money is earmarked for farmers that we have already paid to EU, no ones ever really going to turn it down.

 

Is the system flawed? Course it is, is it the farmers fault thou? No

Under the last SFP system it was surprising how little grants some farms got while others where getting mid boggling ammounts and even quite a few getting nothing.

The problems is more civil servants than poiticains, there usually a bunch of idiots who dream up stupid ideas and schemes to allegedly help wildlife (most of the new entry level ideas are a complete waste of time/land) but attach plenty of needless paperwork to it to keep them all in a job. Parasites really

 

Even thou any schemes have good intentions they usually make such a cock up off them they either don't work or eave massive loopholes that greedy folk exploit.

 

I bet most farmers would far rather have no subs but paid a fair price for there produce. Doubtful that would ever happen esp now with supermarkets/global economy and the vast % of population not caring where food comes from or how it was looked after, all they want is it cheap.

 

 

My point about RHI sub's (which is a prime example of a great idea not fully thought out and being abused massively by some) was not meant for individual claimants

But how that combined with boimas energy tarrifs are keeping the price/demand artifically high due to sub's.

So keeping firewood prices up but also keeping harvesters/forwarders and hualiers in work and standing timber dearer.

Not unusual nowadys for whole woods to be cut just for boimass, ignoring any prime logs that would normally be harvested

 

It wasn't that long ago u could hardly give chip/pulp wood away now its in demand

 

 

Sometimes farmers don't help themselves moaning before jumping into a flash motor. But i wouldn't do there job.

 

I imagine most/many onhere are tree surgeons etc, now imagine u go paid similar to a farmer.

If i had 3 equal sized trees in my garden and u took down 1 a year, say 1st was £200 quid which is the correct price, would u want to come back the 3nd year if i only gave u £100 the 2nd time?

Farmers produce a product not ever knowing wot its value will be, throu no fualt of there own (global markets etc) the same thing could be worth 50% less some years. Grain regularly fluctuates between sub 100 and well over 200 quid a T

[drinksloe]

Just about the planning thing it must be different in some areas but my local paper is full of planning applications for farm sheds/slurry towers etc most weeks all going throu PP.

I dare say most won't be refused but i have heard of them altering things

[agg221]

I bet most farmers would far rather have no subs but paid a fair price for there produce.

 

I certainly would! Not after a huge return, but it would be nice to know that I would usually make a modest % profit.

 

I imagine most/many onhere are tree surgeons etc, now imagine u go paid similar to a farmer.

If i had 3 equal sized trees in my garden and u took down 1 a year, say 1st was £200 quid which is the correct price, would u want to come back the 3nd year if i only gave u £100 the 2nd time?

Farmers produce a product not ever knowing wot its value will be, throu no fualt of there own (global markets etc) the same thing could be worth 50% less some years. Grain regularly fluctuates between sub 100 and well over 200 quid a T

 

This is a big issue. It isn't helped by other factors beyond anyone's control such as the weather of course, but the fluctuation really is bad. As an example, our first crop was winter wheat, planted in autumn 2013 and harvested August 2014. There were delays in the land purchase and we had to get an access agreement in place. My contractor went ahead at risk and we got ours in in the last week of November. The remainder of the land was sold to a local farmer who was a bit slower off the mark and his went in the following week. It then rained. That time difference was enough to mean that we got away with it, he didn't and had to re-sow the lot in spring. We were later than ideal, part of the land was already too wet to drill and the yield wasn't great - total production 9.5t, sold at £153/t. Including SFP we made a net loss of £30.

 

The following year we also grew winter wheat. We had time to plan, chose the best variety for the land, a high yielding, high protein milling wheat and everything was run to textbook timing. We also increased inputs, resulting in a yield of 15.5t. Unfortunately the inputs, designed to get high protein levels to obtain a premium on the price as it could be used for bread, were not effective as it was a dull but dry summer so the plants couldn't take them up. That meant we stayed on the normal pricing but the cost of production was up. At the same time, the price fell to £100/t so the whole crop value was less than the previous year! There was also no SFP as it was after CAP reform. At current prices we would be on for a net loss of ~£500. 18mnths later it is still sitting in the barn, waiting for the price to rise.

 

Alec

Edited March 29, 2017 by agg221

[drinksloe]

I think i'm right in saying a lot of the fluctutation is now made worse buy those city/stock broker parasites trading on the futures?? markets so pushing prices up/down for no apparent reason other than for them to make more money.

 

Usaully with weather in a bad year ur yeild will be down but so will everyone elses so demand prices should be higher so ideally it woud even itself out.

Milk prices now are still at around 1990's levels (about mid 20p's) althou this time last year some were getting as low as 11-13p a litre, yet wot else has stayed the same price

?

[agg221]

I think i'm right in saying a lot of the fluctutation is now made worse buy those city/stock broker parasites trading on the futures??

 

No, they trade huge volumes at very low fluctuations - the region of pence to tens of pence. The big fluctuation which hit us was the political uncertainty in Ukraine. Ukraine grows a huge amount of grain which was traditionally supplied to Russia. With this market gone, the European market is flooded and prices are down.

 

Alec

[Marko]

I went to the Ukraine in January this year to visit a number of farms right across the country. They have their own issues which whilst quite different to ours, still make it difficult to farm. Example - one chap farmed 166,000 hectares BUT had to rent the land off 110,000 landlords. Big agri is in the wings and they will be a real force to be reckoned with especially with their EU aspirations.

[drinksloe]

Thats intresting Marko

 

I travelled throu Ukraine on a train a good few years ago going to a fitba game.

1 of the other lads in the group was combining business with pleasure and was involved with a massive scots/uk tattie growing group/co-op. And was tryig to see if it was possibly to invest out there. I think he was 1 of the 1st groups looking to invest out there (i think at the time it was hard to take profits out of the country)

 

Must admit i was completely shocked by the living standard out in the countryside and just how poor they were/are. People literally living in wot looked like bad allotment sheds (just built from random bits of timber nailed together)and farming with horse and carts.

It ws like stepping back in a time machine.

Growing pumpkins? on the railway bankings and onthis train the toilets quite literally where a hole in the floor and the pedal flipped it to the side of the track.

 

As an aside at the polish/ukraine border they lifted the whole train up and changed the wheels, just slid the whole runnibg gear right out, seemingly the railway guage is different from old eastern block countries

 

Yet the big sheds/infrastructure is there for large scale farming, just when the soviets left everyone got 1-2 acres of ground but no one could afford to buy/run a tractor as all the parcels of ground were to small (in fact very similar to wot snp trying to achieve if they got there way)

[Marko]

Very similar still - rural is very rural. Communal wells and limited electric (but wireless internet better than ours). The general feeling was that in Soviet times they had money but nothing to spend it on and now the shops are full but money is very much divided between the haves and the have nots. The banking system is in crisis and many crops were left standing because there wasn't the money to harvest them. All of which is fixable. Big Finance and Big Agri are circling awaiting their opportunity.