how'r we supposed to compete

[geoff]

A very healthy approach to risk mamagement and safety negates the need for insurance.

 

No licence required for brash carrying if its given to me(with the logs) as its my own waste that I am carrying.

 

I do have a chipper now.

 

Which other hoops? TPO's, felling licences, conservation areas are all covered in the CS31 course so I ensure full compliance.

 

Things have moved on a little since the scenario painted in my first post and I have now started doing a bit of tree work to get paid- in cash and not just in logs!!!! Got climbing tickets, partner and small chipper- just need a few customers now!!!!

 

I think you may find the instructors on cs31 may also have stressed the need for insurances, thebelt and braces approach to safety/risk should be carried out no matter what,not as a substitute to 'negate' insurance,You will look very cowboy in court if/when something goes wrong, hope you dont have any property as you stand to lose it in the event of a claim against you.well done in moving on a bit and charging for work,but I feel you have more reason now to comply with industry standards (insurance being one),otherwise one is just not going to 'cut the mustard'! Who I ask of you,with respect,informed you that good safety etc negates need for insurance,or is this just a considered personal opinion,I am intrigued!

[dillsue]

I am LOLing at this. I shall LOL even harder at your first claim. Does your 'healthy' approach include a written risk assesment and a health and safety policy?

 

 

I think you might find the Environment agancy dissagree with you on this one.

Still, Its a minor point compared to not having insurance cover.

 

It includes written risk assesment for every job but the "healthy" approach covers far more than a written document will ever cover. Being in a continuous state of awareness and managing the ever changing risks is what having a safe life is about.

 

No H+S policy is required by law, so none compiled. A policy doesnt make you safe- common sense and a heathy approach do though.

 

Not certain about the waste carriers licence BUT have followed several threads on the subject on other forums, and the opinion of what seemed to be well informed individuals was that so long as your contract with the customer included you taking ownership of the wood then no waste carriers licence was required as you were carrying your own material. Some of these individuals had discussed this concept with the EA so I'm happy to operate along those lines.

 

BTW. Regrettably heading towards taking on insurance due to potential customer requirements!!!!

[geoff]

It includes written risk assesment for every job but the "healthy" approach covers far more than a written document will ever cover. Being in a continuous state of awareness and managing the ever changing risks is what having a safe life is about.

 

No H+S policy is required by law, so none compiled. A policy doesnt make you safe- common sense and a heathy approach do though.

 

Not certain about the waste carriers licence BUT have followed several threads on the subject on other forums, and the opinion of what seemed to be well informed individuals was that so long as your contract with the customer included you taking ownership of the wood then no waste carriers licence was required as you were carrying your own material. Some of these individuals had discussed this concept with the EA so I'm happy to operate along those lines.

 

BTW. Regrettably heading towards taking on insurance due to potential customer requirements!!!!

 

You will feel a lot more comfortable with insurance,it does not have to cost the earth,and if you are doing everything else right then its daft not to have it!

[dillsue]

I think you may find the instructors on cs31 may also have stressed the need for insurances, thebelt and braces approach to safety/risk should be carried out no matter what,not as a substitute to 'negate' insurance,You will look very cowboy in court if/when something goes wrong, hope you dont have any property as you stand to lose it in the event of a claim against you.well done in moving on a bit and charging for work,but I feel you have more reason now to comply with industry standards (insurance being one),otherwise one is just not going to 'cut the mustard'! Who I ask of you,with respect,informed you that good safety etc negates need for insurance,or is this just a considered personal opinion,I am intrigued!

 

You answered the question about negating the need for insurance yourself in the last sentence- "good safety". Its my understanding that if you act with due diligence and record that by way of a written risk assesment, then you cannot be prosecuted or sued for negligence.

 

No mention of insurance from the highly respected instructor that did all my forest based training- stick to the rules(two tree lengths, no cables, risk assessments, signage etc etc) and get on with the job.

 

As I've said in another reply, regrettably I'm probably heading down the insurance route due customer requirements but wouldnt given the choice!!

[Dean Lofthouse]

Personally I'm quite happy to cover a few grands worth of damage to a fence or garden and anywhere where there are higher risks involved then I'll mitigate them or wont do the job.

 

Insurance or not you will pay for damage or injury

 

The court will decide and either your insurance company will pay or you will pay if you have none.

 

I would prefer it came out of the insurances pocket than mine

[Stephen Blair]

get insurance, no question, you may feel you are being very careful but things can happen..thats why they call it insurance and not assurance...

[Mesterh]

As I've said in another reply, regrettably I'm probably heading down the insurance route due customer requirements but wouldnt given the choice!!

 

Why on earth not!

 

Would you feel ok about seriously injuring or crippling someone for life and not see them get any type of compensation!!!

 

The reason I have insurance is not for it o pay out the odd flag or fence panel but if an 'accident' happens and someone is hurt they will/should receive financial compensation.

 

I have paid tens of thousands of pounds over the years for insurance and have never had to claim but who knows what might happen tomorrow!

 

Suppose I shouldnt have said no doubt something will happen now

[Tom D]

Insurance isn't really there for fences and garden ornaments, its for people. aA claim could be something as simple as someone tripping over a little twig and could easily cost 100K if they are badly injured.

 

If I break a fence I just fix it there and then, doesn't happen often, my insurance is there to protect ME from getting sued not to look after garden gnomes etc.

[Quickthorn]

A very healthy approach to risk mamagement and safety negates the need for insurance.

 

No licence required for brash carrying if its given to me(with the logs) as its my own waste that I am carrying.

 

I do have a chipper now.

 

Which other hoops? TPO's, felling licences, conservation areas are all covered in the CS31 course so I ensure full compliance.

 

Things have moved on a little since the scenario painted in my first post and I have now started doing a bit of tree work to get paid- in cash and not just in logs!!!! Got climbing tickets, partner and small chipper- just need a few customers now!!!!

 

A positive attitude is one thing, but this seems to be tipping into pure hubris.

 

Firstly, your idea that it's "your" waste would not be shared by the Environment Agency. Their position is that the waste belongs to the person who is giving instructions for the work. If your customer wants a tree removed, they are the ones who are discarding the tree, so it is their waste, which you will be carrying. It's been covered many, many times before on this forum alone. Please don't bother to argue, or suggest things like "buying the waste for a penny", or anything else like that, just phone them up and find out what you should be doing.

 

Most people on here would regard working without public liability insurance as immoral: accidents are unforeseen by definition. How do you know what damage you or someone working for you might cause in the future? I'm thinking along the lines of serious injury to third parties, not just the odd bit of garden fence. That's why most of us are covered up to at least £2 million plus.

 

If you have a partner working with you, you are employing them, and working without employers' liability insurance is illegal. However healthy you think your attitude to risk management is, you need employers' liability insurance by law..

 

I can't help thinking that you've seriously overestimated what cs31 etc gives you. It's a very basic test that you can control the saw, can do some basic felling techniques and have minimal underpinning knowledge. It barely begins to cover a fraction of the eventualities you are likely to meet. If you think that it's taught you everything you need to know, then you're in the wrong frame of mind.

[skyhuck]

. Its my understanding that if you act with due diligence and record that by way of a written risk assesment, then you cannot be prosecuted or sued for negligence.

 

You are VERY MUCH mistaken