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  • Article: Pollards, the forgotten art-discussion

    Po!la*d-a four letter word?

     

    One could be forgiven for thinking it is! I am almost afraid to mention the word in today’s arboricultural scene, but am I the only one who thinks it a little ironic that we now revere the very trees that where pruned in such a way we might now lynch those doing it? Is pollarding really to be considered the ultimate sin? Or is there just a lack of insight into the merits and de merits of each case, and a fear of retribution for going out on a limb and making the choice. At this time it’s a brave man that suggests “sensitive pruning” isn’t always the right approach. As a climber of 20 odd years I have done my fair share of old and veteran trees, and had to pollard (oops, blasphemy!) some for spurious reasons, not having been the one responsible for the job specification. If there is one thing I have gained through my successes and failures it is insight, a “feel” for the tree and its life from seed to senescence, its grace and ultimate glory as a grandfather of time.

    Thanks to the likes of Neville Fay and Ted green MBE the arb world is more enlightened on the whole subject of ancient trees and veteranisation, and the world seems to be awakening to a new understanding. We have come almost full circle, we grew a distain for harsh techniques and Hepting/ Shigo and others exposed the issues with poor pruning and treatments. A refined approach was born and some of us went on to become masters of the art in fine tip reductions in respect of this new knowledge. We stopped over lifting tree canopies and crucified the “over thinners” we mobbed the “purveyor’s of pollard”. While all this was going on a few of us “labourers” where reading up and taking notes, watching the debates and doing what we where told was the “best practice”.

     

    “I’m not suggesting we abandon this approach, preservation of amenity is a different game altogether”

     

     

    Now it is our turn to give some input to the debate, and I am certain there will be many “old school” climbers ready to join in. The one thing that is blindingly obvious to me is that very little respect is paid to the “experience factor” it is all well and good educating yourself and gaining a degree in arboriculture, but you can never learn from books what you learn by feel; and trees, though they may be the substance (paper) of text books, rarely are trees text book in nature. I mean no disrespect to the “consultants” but you really should pay more heed to the views and experience of climbers. The older climbers have a body of experience gained from a time when we just got on with it, rounding over, pollarding etc. We might never consider doing it these days but we know HOW to do it and how to do it well, skills that are being lost on a generation of climbers who only know the way it is today.

    What this will mean in a decade or two is that people with the very skills the veteran brigade seek to re learn will be lost, how hard can you prune? Where can we make that cut for the best compromise of vascular support and minimal dysfunction? Have we not learnt just how resilient trees can be? Decay and dysfunction are part and parcel of a trees old age, be that from natural progressive infections or via pruning wounds, they are the same end result so why fear them? I am sick to my teeth of being told I can not do this and I can not do that, when I have all my life proven time and time again that it CAN be done, but it has to be with “insight” I fear if we don’t settle the debate soon a whole gap will appear in the generations of veterans as the old ones die while we are all trying to “rediscover” the old ways. The Japanese have been “veteranising” for a thousand years, albeit on a different scale, the principles are the same. The art of producing a miniature ancient tree of visual stature and form is the same art required to recreate the ancient pollards and veterans of the medieval era. You just have to think BIG.

    I have seen some ridiculous attempts at re creating the pollard, and some pretty dire attempts at recession pruning, so bad in fact I doubt Mr X in his white transit with traces of tarmac could do a worse job! I can no longer remain silent walking the old deer parks and seeing trees unmulched unfenced and unloved, they are as much a part of our green and pleasant lands history as any building or monument yet they are left to fend for themselves much of the time despite all the current knowledge available. We need to re-evaluate the pollard fast and to think of pollarding as an option for those old trees considered for felling due to various defects, infections or even subsidence issues. I do not mean the way its done on LA budgets either for those thinking along those lines!

    Some people in the field are of the opinion that pollarding was carried out when the tree was young and while this may be true in today’s scene, it was certainly not the case in the medieval period or Tudor period. I am well aware that there exist few records of the pollarding of old. However the tree is a record of its life, it tells us like a book of a thousand pages what events took place in its life, and when. One only has to look at those old pollards of Burnham to see that pollarding was a brutal practice; the evidence is in the hollow centres. We only have to look at compartmentalisation to see how large the tree was when it was Pollarded. The now hollow stems are the new wood that formed over the dysfunctional core. While the living cambium continued to grow over the now dead part, the demons of D, death, decay and dysfunction (Shigo), moved in and had a tasty supper of lignin and/or cellulose.

    I think there was two ways possibly three of pollarding, and certain that Arborist’s of the time much like the good ones today had a “feel” for their art. I am certain that a tree that had previously been un-pollarded would have had the two major lower limbs left on and been decapitated above this point. This guaranteed that the tree would continue to grow and survive the loss of its head, like the “monarchs without head” a form that is made perfectly naturally. We have to realise that in those times text books where the preserve of the wealthy, these where craftsman whose skills where passed on to a new generation of apprentices. They also had the luxury of more trees to make mistakes with, if one or two died it was no big deal, it made good firewood! Today if we gambled with one of say three oaks on a site we would be justifiably lynched if they was to die from such a brutal practice.

    Now going back to the monarch without head, I am certain that once good re growth was established and of much more slender proportions the now only substantial wood left was also highly desirable and those limbs originally left in place where now cut back to some re growth on their length. I am certain it was this process that created those extraordinarily wide shoulders or “pollard heads” we now see especially in the Burnham beech trees. This is also evident in the way the decay columns extend into the larger thicker sections of these old pollard heads.

    This brings me to the whole demons of D thing again, and I think we need to understand these processes far better if we are to re create our heritage trees for future generations to revere. Its an area of heated debate, and an area that is still to this day largely misunderstood and understudied. I hope to convince the sceptical of the role fungi play in the longevity of trees; this is a co evolutionary process that has gone on for millennia. I have a disdain for the word attack when it comes to fungi, and prefer to think of it as taking advantage of a situation. As with all natural organisms and systems they have a role and a purpose, they are essential and should not be viewed as an “enemy”

     

    I think there may have been a time in history, and not so long ago, when mans activities actualy enhanced Bio diversity, rather than eliminated it. We are losing our way, its time to re think our strategies.

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    Does anybody put earth sods on the cut pollard head to keep the sun from drying it out? I heard this is where the term 'sod it' comes from.

     

     

    Hello Knapp, whilst out in the Basque region of Spain recently, I was looking at lapsed Beech pollards that had been re-pollarded in the last three years.

    Some of these had had moss placed over the pollard cuts.

     

    Most of these had their own habitat niche associated.

     

    Found that very intersting, as I had not come across that before.

     

    First shot is from the Beech on the right.

     

    Welcome to the site. :001_smile:

     

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    i think modern agriculture techniques will eventualy be faded out, iether that or they will work out organics and diverse growing is the rigght way AFTER the mono cultures and modern agriculture goes into a collapse, imagine!

     

    I very much doubt that, with the population increasing rapidly and climate change rendering some fertile areas waterlogged and some desert we will need the most efficient food production methods possible.

     

    Mono-cultures, despite their negatives, remain the most efficient way to feed people.

     

    Food and Water could easily become the only real currency once the full scale of the fraud we call money is uncovered.

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    Phew this thread is deep, I nearly changed the title to "Pollards, the forgotten discussion" :biggrin: But it is all interesting. So many folks with so many opinions, and from so many backgrounds. I can see why the Climate Change discussion in Copenhagen solved so little reading this thread, at the end of the day human nature (and greed) means we all look after ourselves, and everything else takes a back seat.

    On the subject of a pandemic causing chaos for us, heck we just had a couple of inches of snow and the infrastructure of the country collapses!

    I too grew up in poverty, shooting rabbits for dinner, chopping sticks for the fire, collecting coals from the railway bank for the fire, not having new clothes for school and the free school dinners. I have worked hard to ensure my family have a better life than I did, and to a certain extent have achieved all I wanted. Would I wish to step back to the 70's way of living? NO WAY!! This life is better, I am warm, fed and clothed, as are my family.

    Back to the topic, when times were hard, we would do whatever we needed to keep warm, felling trees for our fire, selling logs to raise money for the next bill. Did we care about the trees, definitely not. Now I can afford to care about trees, and that makes a huge difference to the way I carry out my work.

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    skyhuck, do not patronise the c--p out of me, youre a stick giver, and you KNOW exactly what youre saying when you say it!:001_tt2:

     

    :wtf:

     

    I was in no way patronizing you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

     

    I was pointing out what I saw as a major contradiction in your argument.

     

    I'm still not sure what you are trying to say??

     

    Did the medieval woodsman follow nature or lead it?? I thought you were saying he observed and followed it, but now you saying you need to help it??:confused1:

     

    Much of what you say is contradictory, you say you are skint, but are on top money as a climber?????

     

    You view of the past is WAY off, life back then for the ordinary working man was CRAP!!!.

     

    People would have lots of kids because many would die, they would have a child and when it died they would have another and give it the SAME name as the one that died!!!!! just think about for a moment, how little emotional attachment did they ALLOWED themselves to be able to do that.

     

    My great grandfather was born on a farm, his life was hideous!!, he was up at 4am, before school he had to take any spare milk to the next farm, he would get to school and get the cane for being smelly, he was also caned for being left handed and was forced to use his right hand, he could do any task with either hand (ambidextrous)

     

    As for people on £250 week being happy!!, I used to be there and I remember well the shame of putting stuff back at the supermarket check out, going to bed because we were too cold to stay up, the fear of the postman and any unexpected bill.

     

    I now make good money and like SWB says life is GREAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! money if freedom from worry.

     

    I think you life has not gone the way you wanted, but instead of looking to yourself for a way to sort it out you are BLAMING the system.

    Edited by skyhuck

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    not wanting to burst your bubble or tell you what you think, but i sometimes think back to stuff i used to do and think it would be great, but that was then and sometimes we alter our own memories so many times by thinking about them so much that we start to remember all the good bits and see it through rose tinted glasses a little:001_smile:and my back couldnt handle 8 hrs bent over with a saw, and i like cake and coffee to much now anyway:biggrin:

     

    Wow, you boys stay up way past your bed time!

     

    Just home for lunch and thought I would catch up. Your right SWB, times could be crap on the coppice, but I havent done work that rewarding (environmentally and production wise) since. A real team effort on the coppice, filling a big demand for a traditional, quality product.

     

    But when the money almost disappeared it was really sad to see it all pulped with a harvester and we were moved off to Larch and Norway thinnings. Then I started doing groundwork for a friend, then some climbing...then more climbing until working in the woods actually became a cost to my business.....this made me even sadder.

     

    For this reason I have done my degree, to resurect that diversity into my work again. In a few months I will be educated and qualified to carry out and put my name to a massive variety of work that I have always been interested in. Hopefully with more credibility for myself and the excellent, forward thinking companies I contract to.

     

    Amazing what an ancient skill like pollarding can bring out in folk!

     

    Here's wishing us all the best over xmas! :001_smile:

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    I very much doubt that, with the population increasing rapidly and climate change rendering some fertile areas waterlogged and some desert we will need the most efficient food production methods possible.

     

    Mono-cultures, despite their negatives, remain the most efficient way to feed people.

     

    Food and Water could easily become the only real currency once the full scale of the fraud we call money is uncovered.

     

    wow, theres some deep currents in this thread!

     

    is modern agriculture the most efficient production of food? or is it just that we do not appreciate a diverse range of food like that wich wood be avaliable in "alternative methods?

     

    And I totaly agree about the money thing, we are kept "docile" by a system that keeps our nose to the wheel, and keeps enough fear of loss to stop us wanting to rock that boat too much.

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    Wow, you boys stay up way past your bed time!

     

    Just home for lunch and thought I would catch up. Your right SWB, times could be crap on the coppice, but I havent done work that rewarding (environmentally and production wise) since. A real team effort on the coppice, filling a big demand for a traditional, quality product.

     

    But when the money almost disappeared it was really sad to see it all pulped with a harvester and we were moved off to Larch and Norway thinnings. Then I started doing groundwork for a friend, then some climbing...then more climbing until working in the woods actually became a cost to my business.....this made me even sadder.

     

    For this reason I have done my degree, to resurect that diversity into my work again. In a few months I will be educated and qualified to carry out and put my name to a massive variety of work that I have always been interested in. Hopefully with more credibility for myself and the excellent, forward thinking companies I contract to.

     

    Amazing what an ancient skill like pollarding can bring out in folk!

     

    Here's wishing us all the best over xmas! :001_smile:

     

    good on ya fella, i hope you get the succses you deserve. It only requires imagination on our parts to bring change.

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    as for sorting myself out, thats why im doing the school thing, without it I am unemployable for anything other than climbing and i already get top wack on that front, less anyone here has a better offer!

     

     

    I think thats a load, you really dont need any qualification to get on in life, i would employ a man with experience and knowledge over a cocky numpty out of college demanding top whack any day.

     

    If ypou are good at what you do people will sniff you out and pay the appropriate huge cash sum..

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    :wtf:

     

    I was in no way patronizing you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

     

    I was pointing out what I saw as a major contradiction in your argument.

     

    I'm still not sure what you are trying to say??

     

    Did the medieval woodsman follow nature or lead it?? I thought you were saying he observed and followed it, but now you saying you need to help it??:confused1:

     

    Much of what you say is contradictory, you say you are skint, but are on top money as a climber?????

     

    You view of the past is WAY off, life back then for the ordinary working man was CRAP!!!.

     

    People would have lots of kids because many would die, they would have a child and when it died they would have another and give it the SAME name as the one that died!!!!! just think about for a moment, how little emotional attachment did they ALLOWED themselves to be able to do that.

     

    My great grandfather was born on a farm, his life was hideous!!, he was up at 4am, before school he had to take any spare milk to the next farm, he would get to school and get the cane for being smelly, he was also caned for being left handed and was forced to use his right hand, he could do any task with either hand (ambidextrous)

     

    As for people on £250 week being happy!!, I used to be there and I remember well the shame of putting stuff back at the supermarket check out, going to bed because we were too cold to stay up, the fear of the postman and any unexpected bill.

     

    I now make good money and like SWB says life is GREAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! money if freedom from worry.

     

    I think you life has not gone the way you wanted, but instead of looking to yourself for a way to sort it out you are BLAMING the system.

     

    going to answer these one after the other in line and order!

     

    patronising yes you was, YOU captalisation on save implies you are into provocation more than participation, you seem to enjoy provoking more than evoking.

     

    i say i am skint but as a climber on top dollar. this is a situation i will try to clarify for you.

     

    when i was hammered in 18 months theft wise it took EVERY ounce of resource to stay operating, even to debt, then they came and took the truck and chipper to finish me off, at the same point i lost my partner (long story abusive alcaholic, lost my best mate (cared for elderly uncle) to liver cancer and my own mother and her sister tried to sell this my home from under my feet. i had to take a sharks mortgage, pay of that and 54 grands worth of company debt, i have a mortgage that is 250 a month MORE than high st rates, and when i cant keep up, i get hit with late charges by all and sundry.

     

    but i fight, like a pure bred english bull terrier, and i am winning the game step by step. i dont blame the system, i blame myself AND the system, cos the system sucks, the poor are penalised, if you cant pay a bill at the end of the month the charges that are applied kil your chances of the next payment and it spirals, its a hard system to get out of and once your tarnished your scum and no body cuts you slack, because your the fodder this countries unproductive nature feeds on.

     

    As for going back to a time less complicated it will never happen in a modern society, you seem to think and others i am suggesting dropping all the equal rights good working conditions laws that are in place today, what am I, some sort of idiot!

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    Hello Knapp, whilst out in the Basque region of Spain recently, I was looking at lapsed Beech pollards that had been re-pollarded in the last three years.

    Some of these had had moss placed over the pollard cuts.

     

    Most of these had their own habitat niche associated.

     

    Found that very intersting, as I had not come across that before.

     

    First shot is from the Beech on the right.

     

    Welcome to the site. :001_smile:

     

    .

     

    some nice pics there monkey, funny as i was thinking of moss wraps to encourage the woundwoods and advantigous roots to make new connections and discrete living channels! spagnum moss a little humus, some nettly cordage wrap, think this has some worth in trying dont you?

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