Woodwanter

You are just a bit too far away from me otherwise I would have sent a lorry over to collect

I don't disagree all though not sure I can't get it down to 15%? Especially in the sized material I will end up with. I have the shed space to store 600 tons but it's the opportunity cost of that space which gets expensive!

I could but it's not very stackable, mix of rings trunks and cordwood, doubt much air would pass, going to try piling in a windy shed and review but like to plan ahead!

Yeah I agree with you ref the science! I know for grain drying, dry air helps, I think it helps 'suck' moisture out. my biggest issue will be breaking down what I have, trying a cone splitter but it's on a 3.5 t machine so concerned it won't be fast enough for my liking. I imagine your stuff is split for a domestic stove I am burning in a commercial boiler that can take wetter logs all though there will be a (yet to be found) sweet spot between cost of drying vs extra heat output? I have done all my calcs on 2500kwh @ the meter which I hope is going to be much lower than reality. trying to keep cost down by only moving it around by walking floor which will take some logistics!

That's impressive, thanks. as none of mine is caged up I will struggle to move it in. I do have drying floors but I cant get the temperatures you can, I could spread approx 160m3 1 meter deep on the floor though? Air temp would be 30 degrees tops but air RH about 30-40. I would not get the air flow you have but it would be 'a strong breeze'! Could you see this working? I only need it down to 25-30% though

I am considering trying this for my own consumption and want to learn more. Looking to dry about 300t per annum i am assuming the 3 main ingredients are heat, dry air and surface area? I can do two out of three but can't easily get the air temp above 35/40 Guessing most on here have containers converted with fans in front of heat exchangers? How long does a batch take to get down to 25/30% and how many kWh would you need? What air temp / RH are you producing? all advice / tips very welcome!

Future proof your systems by applying now to dry everything. Bare in mind that you need a paper trail of fuel bought to dry then sold, you can't dry it for yourself I believe.

answers here - https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/677747/RHI_Eligible_Heat_Use_Government_Response.pdf RHI eligible heat use consultation… a lobbying success In response to Renewable Heat Incentives (RHI) Consultation, the Government has decided NOT to remove all drying practices as eligible heat uses. Although it will be tightening up the rules of the RHI scheme and drying wood for fuel as well as drying waste WILL be removed. Back in September last year, together with the NFU we responded to the Consultation on eligible heat, demonstrating strong agreement with other trade associations such as the Renewable Energy Association. The NFU has said, “Drying is a legitimate part of the agricultural processing of food and animal feed products, where it may be required for reasons of food safety, quality and to meet contractual obligations on moisture content – sometimes under challenging ambient environmental conditions.” The Department for Business, Energy & Industrial Strategy has published the Government's full response and here is a brief summary of the changes: The Government does not intend to remove all drying practices as eligible heat uses. This includes drying of crops, and wood used for purposes other than fuels which will remain eligible (subject to the existing scheme rules around drying) However, the Government will: Remove wood-fuel drying as an eligible heat use other than where the renewable heat installation is replacing a fossil fuel heat source. Where installations are considered to be in development, they will have an additional six months after the reforms take place to get an RHI application in. For plants that are in development, evidence will be required such as planning permission and purchase of equipment to be eligible for the proposed transition period Remove the drying, cleaning or processing of waste as an eligible heat use as soon as the reforms are implemented Further tighten the eligibility of swimming pools so that only swimming pools that are used for a municipal or commercial purpose receive Non-domestic RHI support These changes will apply to new participants (those applying for accreditation after the new rules come into force) and existing participants who add capacity on or after the date the reforms come into effect. This is in addition to any participant who begins to use heat generated by an accredited installation for an ineligible heat use on or after the date the reforms come into effect. Additionally, the Government will amend RHI scheme rules so that installations, where heat is produced predominantly for single domestic premises, will no longer be eligible under the Non-domestic RHI. The Government will not, at this time, amend the eligible heat use criteria in relation to any other heat uses. These changes are currently anticipated for spring 2018. In effect, this will mean once the new regulations have gone through the parliamentary process which could be as little as six weeks from now

I would say so as the first use is (currently) eligible heat. what may work is recycling heat from a certain eligible use to dry logs as a heat by product.

I am not worried about size, my focus is moisture really. I plan to stick it on a 3.5 or probably 7.5 t machine, larger will have more reach and higher oil flow so in theory quicker? if this is going to work I will want to buy a purpose made and proven unit as it will have to perform. I have acces to a pecker, not sure what bit will work best, time for a play I think! i thought the shears would cut across the grain whilst the pincers will fit along it? Imagine the shears will be above to nibble at rings but not sure how they will bet on with say a 2dt trunk in 4 ft lengths? This sounds interesting but I don't really follow what you do!? Have you any pics or links, sounds like several processes to get what you want, which I assume is firewood to sell on? If so that's a different aim to me as few will be able to burn the size of what i have planned, I don't need the frills

Thanks, what size machine is that on? How quick can you work with it? I liked the idea of the pincers for other uses too but the corkscrew may be the way forward - any links or info please?

I am sure plenty are in the same boat, it does seem bonkers that they are able to change the rules but I doubt they would be if they didn't have the legal ability to do so

I am giving the pecker some thought. I'll have to get a special bit, concrete one will I imagine go straight brought and get stuck? i wonder how that would work on lengths of cordwood though?

Thanks everyone. there will be no waste, everything gets moved by Jcb and 2m3 bucket. the videos I have Seen of the pinchers do seem to do the job but it's hard to get an idea of scale. How meany tons of force are needed on the bigger splitters I wonder? the cork screw can make them spin but if working on the stack it looks like with all the machine's weight on the arm nothing spins. i don't want or need to ring any up just open them up for drying. The breaker may work on the rings that come in but I'm not so sure on the trunks!?

As the tittle suggests, I am trying to work out what fittings could be used on a 7.5t machine best to process a mix of logs, rings and trunks. i have found two options, a cone screw or a log cruncher, basically a set of grabs that pinches the log to split it. Both can pick up logs and move but the cruncher is best for this. is anybody out there using anything similar? For clarity, I don't really need to cut anything down, just split open to facilitate drying. TYIA

So come on government, if you want it below 20% but we can't force dry it using the RHI and it can't be done naturally very easily, how exactly is this going to happen - or is the price of dry wood going to rocket?

No one can be sure. From what i have been advised, new set ups will be shut down, existing may be depending on what % of your total Tier 1 goes towards fuel drying Quite, they have and can moved the goal posts. Any business plans for fuel drying need to stack up without the RHI in my opinion from now on. would it be viable to use fossil fuels to take over instead?

The government will also remove wood-fuel drying as an eligible heat use other than where the renewable heat installation is replacing a fossil fuel heat source. A transition period will be included to allow a wood-fuel drying plant that are in development to be accredited, according to the response. https://www.endswasteandbioenergy.com/article/1455864/waste-wood-drying-dropped-rhi I found this in a bout 4 minutes, there is plenty out there. Writing is on the wall. are you suggesting that it is viable to use fossil fuels to dry logs? I have no idea if this is the case but suspect if the government pull the drying of logs under the RHI very few will start sticking in fossil fuel fed heat to continue the job. They will have to first dry their own fuel (unpaid) and then use that to dry their logs.

So had I, if it wasnt for our quarterly conversation I would nit have heard either! These things never seem to be publiscised till it's been decided. I don't disagree with you, the concept was to save on fossil fuels, it's has produced a lot of employment though. Well this is it, if they restrict forced drying via RHI on one hand but insist on dry logs on the other then it's going to be jolly hard to get enough fry firewood surely? Not like the government to not think these things through though!

One of the directorsof a consultant company who helps advise ofgem. the RHI was never designed to dry fuel, it was supposed to be to replace fossil fuels. If you wanted to set up a business log drying you should have in 2013 when they were paying 9p/kWh. I think you have missed the boat, take advice before you commit, not sure on the rules in Ireland but the lack if Tier 1 out there has cocked the job up for many. look at using solar kilns as a solution if you have the demand for firewood

It's about to go before parliament after heavy consultation. It's been delayed - was meant to be back in October. They never planned for the RHI to be used for drying fuel, it was supposed to be to replace fossil fuels which arguably few would use to force dry logs. nothing has been formalised yet but my consultant has been advising others with 'new business plans' to not rely on the RHI for a dedicated drying set up

Doubt you will get RHI for a new set up drying firewood. Lots in the uk look like their plans will be rejected after they have just finished installing them

Interesting. This must surely tie in with the threat of banning the drying of fuel under the RHI, in the coming weeks? how easy is it to dry firewood down below say 20% naturally?

Before you go spending be sure that you will be able to dry wood as eligible heat. new start ups in the UK would be very brave to try and get a system installed for just drying wood now.

If you think the GF's are bad you see a dragon! Smoke like Thomas the tank engine too! dont know much about the eco Angus?