Safety Steve

know what you mean. Downside is that you can't pressure treat with it - just surface coat. I wonder if there are any longevity comparisons between products. PT probably cheaper after time taken on the job etc. But I love the smell of creosote too - well for about 2 weeks then it gets nauseous!

Is it the real thing...? well yes, but not like Grandpa used to let you sniff. In simple terms the question revolves around it constituent parts - particularly BaP content (stay with me, questions later). Creosote was /is banned across the EU because amongst its other risks it is carcinogenic - particularly skin cancer. Since the ban investigation has allowed a) the public to use a very watered down version ,and b) industrial use of a 'less than Grandpa had' dose of nastiness. Still toxic but I believe the carcinogenic property is now within the safe range (????) and can cause skin reactions in sunlight etc ecological problems (particularly near water, hence don't line your pond edge with sleepers) and so on. So yes you can use this 'traditional product' but see the bottom of the sales web page for the hazard data sheet. Suppliers of any chemical product are required by law to give you this and label the containers etc. Don't do what my dad did when I was 3 and decant into a bottle.... mmmm luverly slurpy... ne-na,ne-na,ne- na....eeeuuuughK....!! BaP relates to Benzine and Phenol - don't ask me any more I am not a chemist! So if you are still using it instead of your Vicks Sinex you will grow another nose - you have been warned.

Used to get a regular so called it Bramley - no prizes or guessing why!

I was thinking the same thing -really useful bit of kit. I bought one off ebay to lift a canoe on top of my van - Drywall Lift | eBay multi purpose lift at low cost. Not sure if they go high enough for a 6' vertical lift panel but worth a look and maybe a mod of some kind. well within weight and allows the panel to be held and lowerd at your pace - good for misaligned post recesses.

Probably because they have a 'system' - tell them you are not a number..... This is usually standard as public sector do not want to carry any liability where they do not have to. Even though they may be registered on the LA scheme, for the sake of the work they are under your 'control' at the time of the work. In all likelihood they would be 'double insured' should something go awry then it is up to each side on a defence case to point to the combined (defendant) respondent to say - 'they pay!'

Firstly; I get absolute zero from this..... A local printer friend makes proper nice 'books' for people (including a very nice racetrack nr Chichester!). They are much lower cost than I had imagined don't quote me but around the £30 range. I don't really need one for my type of work but I think they would make excellent 'sell yourself' products for your prospective clients, or retirement / moving on gifts for bezzy mates or employees. They do the design for you and having seen a few examples I think they are top notch. We do much of this ourselves nowadays, not always to best effect. When you see the results of how they do it I think you will say money well spent. I am not a middle man just PM me for contact details - they are local to me and you may get a similar service nearer you, but I was very impressed with the service.

t'has been said above.... it relates to what is known as the 'master/servant or contractor' test (hence questions about tools, methods, instruction etc. If you opt for the 'get yer own...' which is quite ok, then make sure that a) you ask the question about their personal and public insurance cover in your vetting process (however simple this may be), b) it meets you clients specification (amount insured) and c) you not only check but take a copy of the policy certificate which is valid for when the work will take place (not last years certificate!). Mates rates and routine are fine for conviviality and tax evasion - they are not your best friend when the fan is switched on..... Any good 'mate' would not blink at providing the above, anyone else should be viewed as B2B and your business is the most important so protect it.

Where are you? Suggest you try locally sourcing as they will try to win business and once they have your design set up cost for the future are nil. You can then use on other things. Our local print shop now do this as a service quite competitively.

Ok - it was a bit tongue in cheek, but these guys? Yehaw, ride'em cowboy!! There is a big big h&s problem here if a the ganger allowed this (probably in the cab with tab and costa as a priority), the guys themselves thought it was allowed without a care in the world and the driver(who personally gets the points fro the RTA breach was thick enough to do it! I have solutions both for clients and the contactors, I can change people. But it is too long a story for here. I am sure if we put a poll up most would agree with my buckaroo comment.

Much easier than already attempted, although I will approach from a RCM perspective (backwards); Risk of contractors not working to ssw - medium, invoke H&S contract clause for frustration. Refuse to settle for any outstanding works done risk of contractor in breach of RTA - provide police with evidence and get rid of cowboys from contractor approval scheme, alert other clients in consortium risk of contractor injury during illegal 'riding' on road vehicle on public highway - report contractor to HSE and supply evidence Open tendering process for new contractors :thumbup::thumbup:

Thanks Trees, a case of try before you buy! So - anyone in W Sussex like to lend and Eco model in return for a beer coupon?

Thinking of getting one - anyone use a fan with integral boiler ? I am wondering if there is enough surface heat to get the fan to work effectively.

Okay - I reckon the audience have had enough so thanks for all who contributed. If you do OSH yourself then do use the free stuff the HSE provide on managing safely - it is probably what I would use anyway. If you need advice then there is a register of qualified and insured people you can use called OSHCR. In closing please do me one favour - understand we work with you, not against you. If you get crap advice think, did I; a) ask the right person or b) ask for the right thing. We people in OSH come from varied backgrounds - if I came from the same place as you I'd have no added value to your business. What's the point of paying someone for knowledge you already have? But we do have an understanding of how to get yourself and your team on track and using OSH to your business advantage. This isn't always about safety when aloft - it might be as mundane as the clip above. The problem here is deep seated and lack of respect for the employers (your) business protection. These guys may have lost or caused cancellation of 4 potential contracts in the cars that passed by alone. That is your money - lost from poor OSH. And if one fell and cracked his head open....? Thanks for the debate - time to let the animals free and bury the casualties of conversation.....

You have pm

Marcus - you started talking about WAH and the difference in 'how we do it here'. I am suggesting that where this is not done properly this WAH becomes groundwork - for the paramedics plus people like me. The pen pushers, the photographers, the solicitors the councillors etc etc. When we see the 'work' failings of others invariably it is the same and people look very similar - big red mess. K&D refers to people who manage to stay conscious during their philosophical trials. Once they become comatose or worse they are all the same - irrespective of faith, intellect bla bla bla.... very hurt, very sorry, very wishful that someone introduced them to safe practices 5 minutes before.... or occasionally not very anything....

Thanks Kevin but you have really spoiled the conversation with reality:deal:.... I am guessing that you know your stuff as well - seems like the Croc's are o the retreat.... Bring on..... the Shark tank

Thanks Bob - again you clearly have sight of the objectives and mechanisms involved in good H&S management. Sorry for the loss of 'street cred' but you go on the Croc Killer list

Nope - the insides is all red, the wrapper on the outside sometimes changes colour and the shape varies but we are all the same on the inside.

dare I say that your contract was the testicular component of the equation and because it wasn't thorough this is the bit they kicked you in. Working in a food production plant in particular is a bit like the space station -procedure is king - no exceptions. Other wise we get real nuts with our Wheaties.... Now if you would kindly answer the question that led to this situation.... we might see where the problem is. Don't misunderstand me - this isn't a blame thing but very nicely flags what poor H&S management results in; lost contracts, frustrated contractors, embarrassed foreman, and delayed product.... When I say good safety pays I trust you now see how.

Sound like an excellent approach Stock and you clearly do understand about H&S, the myth of 'common sense' etc

Mat - Not sure if Steve revealed the one he actually used, and not altogether relevant as for whatever reason it was undone when he looked at it, we don't know why or how long it was like that. The Petzl flip lock pictured doesn't fit his system (please explain why someone). This style would be quite easy to micro/mag switch - but why you ask? Because Darwin told us to keep on thinking or join the Dinosaurs! The number of 'me too' say this is too common - irrespective of causation.

Nope - I ain't gonna contact I promise dib dib. I'll wait til you all go back up the trees then sneak in with a contract...... Still looking for the answer - where do you get your company advice from? It seems 'not' from people like me I am thinking - but am I wrong? Who gets good business advice around here:thumbup1:? Who pays for bad advice 'because they have to'?

Thanks Mat...Zzzzz.... v useful but quite old and I was thinking the manufacturers might need a poke to come up with something novel like incorporating a micro sensor for the gate lock linked to audi warning in the lug plugs (or worse it switches off the music). Amazing wizardry can be done now - probably a few years off but worth floating ideas to them and this sort of case study stirs the imagination. Ps I claim patent on this idea - the cash is all mine should it make a million but I absolve any liability if it is useless.

Dr Knownuffin here.... last time I climbed a tree I was in shorts but this post got me to thinking that this place is a very good place to (re) educate a lot of people in the industry - ground workers upwards. How about a section or 'flash' on the homepage. Perhaps change it as required or with a Hill St Blues; 'be careful out there...'https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jmg86CRBBtw as your stapline Steve. Also got me thinking about design and the failure mode Steve. As this is my profession I'd like to know more if this is possible - I fully respect the anonymity of manufacturer etc. Not many are brave enough to share these moments and would rather keep quiet - thanks for being so open.

Wah Hey! that's Offers Dyke breached - now on over Hadrians to Scotchberg and then forth to cross into Irishdom Consider one 'gator' now a pair of very posh 'Croc's'... mmmm :001_cool:comfy....