Stuart Phillips

I take it you mean NPTC assessed. They don't do training courses . The key bit, to meet the requirements of the law, regardless of the assessment, is to make sure they are properly trained. .

The Lantra QUALIFCATIONS (available since 2012) , regulated by Ofqual, are accepted. They have to be as not to do so would be an restrictive trade practice' under the Competition Act 1998. The issues sits with acceptance of the Lantra ITA (Integrated Training and Assessment) certifications. These are not Ofqual regulated as they are a certificate of training. Ironically, the legal imperative is on the training. Under the Management of Health and Safety at Work Regulations (MHSaWR) , and the Provision and Use of Work Equipment Regulations (PUWER) you have to be adequately trained. The assessment is only mentioned in the approved code of practice. The HSE say (http://www.hse.gov.uk/foi/internalops/sims/ag_food/010402.htm): "Individual Awarding Organisations (AOs), for example, City and Guilds NPTC and Lantra, have-developed Qualifications Credit Framework (QCF) units into awards (qualifications) which are based on industry standards and reflect the knowledge, skills and competence required. Only AOs recognised by the qualifications and examinations regulators can offer these qualifications. (See Appendix 2 for details of the Qualification and Examination regulators in GB) The content will be the same across all AOs offering the qualifications. These qualifications are identified and approved by the qualifications regulators and: • Confirm occupational competence and/or licence to practice • Confirm the ability to meet licence to practice or other legal requirements made by the relevant sector, professional or industry" SO... Lantra qualifications "confirm occupational competence" and "confirm the ability to meet licence to practice... requirements". If you would like any other details, or want to let me know of companies out there who still say that they will only accept NPTC, please drop me a line. .

Hi Hooch and All I have flagged this incident, and the other comments regarding poor quality training, with Lantra's Quality and Compliance Manager Sandie Absalom. She immediately asked for the details, so that it could be addressed. So, if you have a problem with a Lantra training course you can contact me or call Sandie on 02476 696996 ex258.

Hi Hooch Give me a ring at Lantra (02476 696996 ex282) or email [email protected] as I would like to follow this up for you. This is the 2nd incidence like this I have heard about recently and I would like to deal with it. Lantra has spent a fair chunk of time and money in the past 12 months to refresh and re-standardise its verifiers, and is currently running updating sessions to cascade the standards to instructors, so this type of thing is just undermining that effort. As for training to pass the test, well I am annoyed at that happening too. There are too many folk who believe that having the 'ticket' is the important thing as far as the HSE is concerned. It comes as a surprise to them that the legal requirement is that they are 'adequately trained'. And again, its the adequacy of the training that is being undermined by poor quality instructors. If anyone else wants to feedback details of these types of issues to me, please feel free.

Are folk aware that there is RDPE funding available for forestry training ( but NOT Arb). Further details are available from [email protected]

Lantra are running a consultation of the unit they are proposing to replace CS 34 & 35. If you want to have your say log in at: Consultation Tool: Home Page I have always been of the opinion that there is no point in complaining afterwards if you didn't take the opportunity to pass comment at the time!

We have got inot this ticket culture. The bod who writes the tenders focuse on what tickets the contractors must have. The contractors therefore ensure that their guys have all the necessary tickets. The newbies entering the industry then have to get all the tickets to get a job. Nobody is asking about experience or expertise. Okay, you can fell a tree up to 380mm, but how does felling a pine differ from felling an oak? What about felling in different situations, And most of all, did it really need felling in the first place? The requirement for all these tickets was supposed to make the industry (forestry and arb). Strikes me that it didn't make a great deal of difference.

As for the chainsaw course... give Capel Manor a bell (08456 122 122). Although they're up at Enfield they do run a couple of out centres which might be closer to you. With certification. However, a quick word of warning, I had an enquiry recently from a chap who'd done the traiing course some years ago, and got his certificate of attendance as that was all he needed at the time, but now his circumstances had changed and he wanted to know whether there was any value in it for use in the profesional workplace. Just a thought.

Good on you. Had someone reverse into the side of my van the other day, while it was parked up. Thankfully he left his insurance details. His insurers (LV) were on the ball in responding, but have been useless thereafter. They haven't been able to source me a suitable replacement vehicle while mine is in the repair shop, and their offer has been £21 a day to cover mine being off the road. Where can you hire a decent car, never mind a medium sized van for that. Extracting the urine.

When I first came across IiP it was a pain and a paperchase, with no real benefits as far as I could see. I'm told it has changed significantly and works as a tool to help businesses develop. The few businesses I have spoken to recently, who have gone through the process speak positively about it but is there anyone out there who can speak from an arb point of view?

The world has changed a fair bit in the last 13 years. Now, in this brave new world the both Lantra and C&G Landbased (NPTC) offer assessment and qualifcations for awards in chainsaw use. Lantra also offers training courses which can be taken leading to the assessments. The 'CS' units, as such, are being phased out. That being said, usually those working in the landbased sector are slow to change their vocabulary, so I suspect that we will be still be calling them 'CS 30/31' Etc. in 20 years time. In the same way, I might suspect that some employers will still be asking specifically for 'NPTC CS 30/31' when both the 'CS' units and 'NPTC' has ceased to exist. As far as the 13 year old certificate is concerned, as couple of thoughts spring to mind. Firstly, as I understand it, the legal requirement has always been that you can show that you are adaquately trained. Courts get very excited about the content of the training done, rather than the fist full of certificates held. 13 years ago you completed the training but, given the work that you were planning to undertake, did not require the qualifcation (the NPTC test as it was then). If you have survived for 13 years without it, it suggests that was the right move ... at the time. Times have changed, insurance requirements have changed etc. etc. So you may now find that you want the qualification. Secondly, 13 years is a long time. The court's next question would be, "What have you done recently?" AFAG 805 recommends a refresher every 5 years for a regular user (every 3 years for the occasional user). If you were involved in an accident, do you have a 'defendable position' to put forward? Perhaps the answer is to do a refresher course, to sharpen your skills and highligh any bad habits, and then, on the back of that, do the appropriate tests for certification (either through NPTC or Lantra).

Capel have a well run arb apprenticeship programme, which would enable you to pick up the tickets you need as well as the knowledge based training. The only hassle is the distance, but worth talking to them.

The changes in the quals follows the review of NAtional Occupational Standards for the induistry , completed earlier this year. I suspect that the biggest change isn't in the qual so much as that City and Guild (NPTC) will nolonger be the only awarding body offering them. Lantra Awards, who currently do the training courses, will soon be offering the assessment as well.

Hi Jack, the colleges mentioned are good, it depends on where you are in the SW and how far you want to travel. Duchy - Cornwall, Bicton - Devon, Cannington (is a part of Bridgwater College) - Somerset, and to complete the set Kingston Maurward College - Dorcherster,Dorest. Do consider an apprenticeship as an alternative to a full time course because there is no substitute for hands on experience working on site.

Hi Chris, don't know a trainer for UA units, but sure you'll get a response on that... WOuld say that the Utility Arb Group are on the verge of getting the suite of utility quals revised. There was a number of utiltiy specific occupational standards picked out in the recent review of the National Occupational Standards, these can now be 'translated' into fresh quals that are up to date with the industry requirements. Its a bit of a case of "whatch this space really".

The 'CS' units, AA such are about to change, as the whole suite of quals has been revised. Also the assessment Market is opening up, Lantra will be offering assessment as well as the training. It might be worth contacting them as well, or go through the Lantra awards website

I was alreay planning to,, really to bring you up to date with the skills recording tool that Lantra is working on. They will be looking for a couple or companies to pilot it later this year and I thought that you might like to be one of them.

With all qualifications now moving over to the QCF (qualifcation credit framework) it should make it easier (for quals after Sept 2011) show the equivolence of similar units to the AO1 from other awarding organisations.

Lantra is looking at the viability of an Apprenticeship Training Agency (ATA) for the landbased sector. The ATA would act as the apprentices employer, and then place the apprentices with businesses. This enables small businesses to take on an apprentice without the issues of PAYE etc. If you want to let Lantra know what you think, follow the link: Apprenticeship Training Agency survey

As you know, Lantra is developing a Professional Skills Framework, as a business tool, to enable employers to record staff skills and plan staff developement and training. I am now looking for feedback from the trees and timber industries to help us shape the framework to the requirements of the sector. Below is the link to an online survey, as a part of the feasibility study. Forestry and Arboriculture PSF Feasibility Survey The survey will only be live for about 3 weeks,so I am going to try to encourage a swift turn around on this if possible. If there are any queries please come back to me or to Charlotte Binnie in the Lantra research section.