Tom10

I dont suggest that for a second - My point is only that youngsters need a chance to prove themselves no matter what background they are from, in fact this is nothing to do with my point. I just simply think we should be very much encouraging these guys and guiding them to ensure they follow the right avenues into this industry, if they so wish to work in it. These people are asking questions to ensure they have the knowledge to progress. Its better than buying a truck, bow saw and a ladder and calling themselves tree surgeons. Once you offer a youngster the right advice it is then down to what sort of person they are as to whether they succeed, and the vast majority will fail (but this is surely the case in every other industry, before they find their forte? i dont know many people that have only ever had 1 job) Also your food chain type list isnt exactly true. Because someone is on the dole or works sweeping maccie d's floors doesnt mean they cant be good arborists, or electricians, or mechanics - perhaps they havent had the right opportunity, which is what we should be promoting.

True, Just worth remembering many of these guys are in their teething stages of coming into the industry and would be a shame to deter potentially good guys before they start. Also, Im not an expert on other industries, however I wouldnt be surprised if theres just as fewer job opportunites in other sectors too! The easiest and most simple thing for any school leaver to do is sit on their backsides and let the government pay them, thats unfortunate. Tom

Agree totally with you Rupe, There's just a way of saying things, and an expert shunting a newbie of of the door before any evidence he or she is capable of making a living from this game is wrong. A newbie now could be a far better arb than the person shunting... Anyway - should said person leave arbtalk feeling disgruntled that the replies they got were not much help, and they do step up a gear and make a success of their business, it would be a shame for them to have a chip on their shoulder regarding their experience with this useful site. Tom

Pedroski - My point exactly Rupe - Agree - and not aiming my comments at anyone specific. I dont think a forum with testosterone fueled, tree climbing, chainsaw wielding arbs is the place for everyone to get on, never have a disagreement and tell eachother how nice we look Banter is cool, everyones up for a laugh after a days work and thats not my gripe. To sum up - if a newbie comes onto this forum it would be nice for them to leave thinking they can succeed but ONLY with a huge amount of hard work and skill (and have the answer to their question) As opposed to leaving thinking i may as well not bother and end up sitting on the dole or retraining in a well known fast food chain, for example. By formidable I mean the well respected knowledgable types who juniors look up to. Tom

I like your reply - and do agree, to work in this industry banter is a must. Sarcastic, funny, dry comments from industry experts is what a forum is all about and thats fine. If you cry at people giving you a hard time this is no job to be in. Im really mentioning the posts that have been a complete put down of the original post with no relevance. iv seen several newbies asking questions (what you, I or someone else might think is blindingly obvious) and instead of giving a sensible answer, a bit of banter included and some worldly advice. Its been a case of no answer to the question, no funny / dry input, just a plain simple dont bother in this industry, you cannot succeed. Thats different to a formidable arb putting a young whippersnapper in his place. Tom

Completely agree on all points. We just dont know who these gritty skillful sensible and determined youngsters are without giving them a chance, and putting them down while they're just asking questions is aimless - This isnt aimed at anyone specific, just comments I have noticed when on the forum. Tom.

Couldnt agree more with Dean, Mark and Mozza Dean: I made an absolute clear point that hard work is the only avenue when starting out - its only a select few that will have the mental and physical capacity to work as hard as you have to, to make a success of a business, whether freelancing or whatever. My point is, we dont know which of these lads have that attitude without them having the chance to prove it. Mark: Agree - companies charging down prices helps no-one. Were in a specialist industry and should demand specialist prices. The issue is however ''lads beer money'' is all they're worth, especially when subbying to a company. So on that thought process all lads should be worth what me or you might want to earn in a day? Thats not cricket either. I think the lesson is when going self employed and pricing their own jobs they need to be competing and knowing they're money, not undercutting because they can afford to. No matter which way anyone looks at it we need fresh faces in the industry, and whether we have too m,any being churned out of college is another issue. What we do need to do is respect their goals and ambitions until they prove otherwise. Everyone reading this with a successful business started somewhere....... Interesting thread.

Arbtalk is a valuable asset to any newbie to this industry, anyone looking to change career, and startup businesses looking for advice. Occasion after occasion I seem to read members on here posting legitimate questions such as a name for their new business or advice on where to get trained, colleges to attend or gear to buy and the same old replies which house no relevance to their question. ...Dont buy any gear. You'll get no work. Market flooded. Look to do something else etc etc... I agree - colleges churn out a lot of guys thinking this industry is a walk in the park - perhaps what we fail to realise is half of these people wont hack the industry and will fall back on another career or re-train. The ones who stick with it, have a good work ethic and are talented and efficient can, and will get work. The people leaving such advice are more often than not very experienced arbs running successful businesses and not having to worry about how busy they're going to be tomorrow... so comments are easy to pass. People new to this industry deserve sensible opinions. Maybe something like, its not easy at the moment, or dont expect to be busy day in day out until your business grows (as well as an industry expert answer to their actual question, after all thats why we use arbtalk dont we? advice from other arbs and to learn stuff). As opposed to a knock your confidence flippant comment. I fear we may be upsetting and demoralising potentially very good newcomers to the industry. No one works forever and there's plenty of people getting past the age where they want to climb, there's plenty of people who have an awful lot of work on who would rather pay a lad a fair wage to do a job they dont want to do. It is more important that we give honest advice but also give these guys a pat on the back for at least trying to enter an industry that we all love. The chaps (and chapettes) that have a good solid business plan and a strong work ethic can happily succeed. Most may still be living at home and may only need to make enough money for basic equipment, a bit of rent for mum and dad, a vehicle and public liability. Well a few days a month at a sensible wage will see that through if thought out well. Every county has busy contractors and putting your name around these guys and showing a real good days work when offered will see you invited back. Who on here wouldn't have a hard working young lad for £60 - £80 quid a day when there's a busy job on? Most of them can drag brash faster than us and will soon pick up skills to become more and more valuable to a company. A good contact in the industry can soon lead to a couple of days work a week which could be ample for you to be able to start a successful business. Lets also not forget organisations like the Princes Trust who offer financial help and planning for start-ups and people with unfortunate backgrounds / unemployment etc. If they are 40 years old with 2 kids and a mortgage I agree things will be more difficult. But more strategic financial planning, with a plan B, and a Mrs with a decent income should see that they at least give it a go. Without a good business plan, and without a good work ethic and attitude they will surely fail. However, tree's still grow in a recession and we need young lads to come through to replace outgoing workers. Though I agree its very difficult and its a case of sorting wheat from chaff - Maybe all shouldn't be tarnished with the same brush. Tom (whos visit home for some toast has gone on far too long - back off to work)

Agree.

This seems strange, like has been said things vary from area to area but your contrast seems wrong (or wrong as I perceive it) Your £80 a day for a decent groundie seems sensible and pretty average for a good guy on the ground... But £100 for a freelance climber? If i could only get £100 freelancing then id put my climbing kit in the shed along with the top handle and go out for £20 less a day and work on the ground! IMO a good efficient climber is worth £140 / £150 of anyones money... But - as you say, if youve got a lot of good climbers around you fighting for the work then why pay more than you need to I guess...

Excellent - ill gather the pennies from the inside of my truck and buy one! Tom

That looks good, but it wants to at double the price of a standard... So - how would you set up a system to include a pulley?

My thoughts too. Am I being naive or is it just me who sees no problem with a cambium saver on its own?

Can you not just biner the 2 cambium saver eyes together and put a pulley onto the biner?

Stein cambium saver | F R Jones and Son Seems like a better idea - Im sure they do next day delivery

Only 2! - however Iv got my dad on the policy who has never had a claim and am incredibly rural which helps the premium too. the company I found brilliantly cheap for no frills insurance was Tesco value insurance (yes they do a value range of insurance too!) but for some reason I didnt go with them but I cant remember why - something stupid like they wouldnt insure me commercially or something - but deffinately check it out - very cheap and even cheaper if you've got a good old club card! It is no frills though with no recovery / courtsey car etc Tom

...And will drip for the next 345 years being a walnut.

I often shout that when a Fell goes right Don't take the P**S Also who of use here hasnt chucked arisings over the boundary and hid under hedges, common practice isnt it? .....................

Flush out with petrol, pull fuel filter out and swoosh around in petrol also. I dont talk from experience of course

Cheers luke, now watching!

Can u expand? I love watching watchdog - but do you mean another episode is coming up soon with stump removal in? I dont understand Tom

Stu - Im younger than you with a Ranger Thunder - tad over a grand with Post Office - they even have an english call centre This insurance is cheaper than my old peugeot 206 - as its commercial Tom

There is a difference between a groudie and a labourer. A groundie working efficiently with a climber, rigging, lowering and holding CS38 is over £100 but dependant on area. A labourer cleaning up, cutting the stuff dropped from the tree and organising it, own ppe but not expected to be efficiently working with a climber and holding no CS38 then 50 - 70 IMO Tom.

Fence it in and create a huge nudist camp. Erect (excuse the pun) large shelters so the naturists can seek shelter, lay on food and drinks and have events, like karaoke and twister. £20 per person per day (discounts for family visits) Really though? Im not an expert on firewood production however that's a nice little block of woodland by the sounds of things and I'm sure you could make some money somehow - but I fear you may spend a long time working extremely hard before you see any come back, and of course if you seek / want full time employment in the interim it may put your plans on hold. In terms of machinery I reckon you will need a small forwarder, a PTO driven log splitter for production, somewhere thief proof to store it to season, and of course buyers for the wood in the long term which may be difficult if your area is saturated with producers. I reckon strike a deal with a woodland management / firewood production firm in your area so your work input is nil or small but you still get money. Valuable input im sure.

Ouch.