10 Bears

Hello Will, Marko and Geoff summed it all up really - particularly the comments about not relying on a boundary fence as determination of property boundary. If you were to go ahead and (with knowledge) remove what turned out to be the field owners property, you will be the one potentially liable to prosecution should it get that far. Previously you asked who is liable, and the general rule is, he who does the wrong ie the contractor, not the customer, would potentially be liable as the contractor is the working professional and they are seeking payment for a service. Therefore they should take all reasonable steps to ensure their work is in accordance with the law or other directives. You may ask what happens if as the contractor you act in good faith, but are given misinformation from the client for example, 'it is my tree (honest) - fell it today' when in fact this is not the truth. Well, there is a covenant of 'Passing Off' that has been established in case law. In short, you will be absolved from wrongdoing if you can demonstrate that someone else gave you the misinformation and you acted in good faith to provide the service. So, in short, I would also recommend avoiding felling the boundary tree when there is a known dispute. You can go ahead and do the work on the side of your client, assuming that the tree is sufficiently in their property to warrant the extent of the work you do, and that you do not aerially trespass in to the other persons property. Best of luck with it!

Interesting - as its pushed on to your land, there may be damage to your ground as well ie requiring some degree of landscaping to return to its former state before this incident happened. This may only be minor, but it all adds weight to your case - only if the damage is there of course! You should gather your own evidence, again as pictures as I mentioned previously. You are very unlikely to get a SOCO to photograph the site for you. To involve the Police you *may* get a dismissive comment like this is a civil matter between the landowners, but rest assured that this is not. The matter is criminal damage as under the Criminal Damage Act (1971): section 1(1) of the Act: A person who without lawful excuse destroys or damages any property belonging to another intending to destroy or damage any such property or being reckless as to whether any such property would be destroyed or damaged shall be guilty of an offence. You situation sits comfortably within this definition. Should you have time, I would like to see some images of the site and situation to see if I can offer any more help.

Hello Aaron, Sorry to hear you have had a tree removed without consent. I am a consultant and expert witness, so I will give you some information, but of course, this goes with the caveat that I have not seen the site nor had any other information then you have posted above. Broadly speaking, there appear to be legal infringements that have occurred - but I'm afraid there needs to be more information from you in order to sort out exactly what the situation is. I will give some thoughts/comments pertaining to English law and assuming the situation occurred in England or Wales. This may sound dismissive, but are you absolutely certain that you are the owner of the tree? As the tree is in a hedgerow, is it possible that the other landowner could claim some degree of ownership too? Trees are considered the property of the person who owns the ground that they grow in. This follows that trees on boundaries can be under proportional shared ownership. This would of course muddy the water somewhat if this was the case e.g., they want their 50% of the tree down, but you want to retain your 50% of the tree as standing. It also makes it hard to appoint blame in cases as this. You may be able to prosecute if the tree is under your absolute ownership, but if it is shared ownership you may seek arbitration with no guarantee as to the outcome other than to run up a lot of costs. Immediately though, you will need to take lots of photographs of all elements of the 'evidence' that you can get ie of the tree, the stem damage, tracks on the ground, vehicles on the site etc etc. Don't be shy of taking 50+ pictures if you need - they will be useful later. Also make sure you take images of the tree that would be indicative of its health eg lots of buds on the branches, no signs of decay etc if all relevant. These will help with the argument that the tree was in a healthy condition before the event occurred. I am assuming they have pushed the tree back onto their land - please be mindful of not trespassing to take the pictures. Do you know who the company was that operated the plant machinery? Could you get number plates of vehicles etc.? I am not suggesting any confrontation with these workers if they are on site, but if possible, log details of vehicle registrations that are on site to help narrow down who has been there and may have additional information. These details would only be useful in the event of arbitration. A word of warning here, although it is within your rights to photograph the people on the site (if they are still there), some people do object to this and there is the potential that a confrontation may ensue. I have witnessed this personally in similar circumstances. Hence, surreptitiously, rather than overtly, recording details such as car registration etc is advised. Without going in to any great detail and based on assumptions, there may be the case that they have caused you to suffer 'loss' from criminal damage (loss may not always mean financially), and as such there may be recourse. Could you let us know approximately where you are (nearest large town)? There are various consultants on these boards who may be in a position to help with documenting this situation, leading to the production of the required arboricultural reports etc that are needed if there is a case to answer and you want (if it is possible) to seek prosecution. A lot of this will hinge on the ownership issue though, its important to establish this first as there may be no case to answer otherwise. Feel free to post again with further information.

Now thats a truly enterprising idea Kevin - and probably the only justification for doing this job!

Well, on the basis of several assumptions, little information and no up to date pictures - it still seems a little like a fools errand to me. As it is crown thinned, the weight is already gone (presumably). There are few targets beneath the tree, a path yes and the grassed area, but how often do targets ie people, occupy those spaces? Very little I would suggest. Also, when branches/cones are more likely to fall off ie in bad weather, then the targets are even less likely to be there. My views could of course change if you subsequently post an image with a Sparassis crispa (cauliflower fungus) at the base or something similar! Based on what you have said, the image and a measure of conjecture, I would not get the work done.

As above, I would use when appropriate. Exploded schematics are very useful.

I am currently working a consultancy job for a cemetery. Its very complex given the situation, existing problems, statutory designations, other legal issues, current and future use etc. Oh, and not forgetting that everything has to go through a committee! They are being charged accordingly for my services.

Well, with very little information to go on, it is quite difficult to give any real objective view. I would say however, that my initial impression is 'why?', so that leads me to ask who has advised this? Are they an arborist or similar? If there is a safety justification, perhaps that the tree is defective in some way, then I would still fail to see how removing a few cones would make the tree any safer for a couple of reasons. Cones are not particularly heavy, so even if there are a few hundred cones, the reduction in weight would be minimal. If there is a defect, then surely solutions like limb removal or crown thinning would be more sensible? Trees are self-optimising structures and they will not add additional biomass to their structure if the tree was not mechanically adapted well enough to support the weight of the biomass (cones). This is conjecture on my behalf as I've not seen the tree/situation, but I would be reluctant to agree to have this work done myself without a lot more information as to why this is being proposed. Could you give more information and perhaps several pictures of the tree and its situation?

I have just read a quite interesting article. Although this is not a particularly scientific review, it puts forwards a case for a sensible solution to the "Grey squirrel" problem we have, and as the article says, it doesn't involve firing a shot. How to eradicate grey squirrels without firing a shot It's a solution that I personally would like to see rolled out where possible, but as the article summarises "the governance of the countryside is still dominated by titled amateurs, while those with professional knowledge and expertise are frozen out". OK, perhaps this is a little over-egged by a journalist, but in some respect, I feel he is correct. Anyhow, an interesting read...

For some reason posted twice (Just in case you weren't sure the first time!)

Jim - The only commercial tip I know of round there is Sharston Tip, about 1/2 hour drive away. Definitely open on the weekend. Recycling Centre About the same distance is the tree station FAQ - TreeStation but I dont know their hours

Jim - The only commercial tip I know of round there is Sharston Tip, about 1/2 hour drive away. Definitely open on the weekend. http://www.recycleforgreatermanchester.com/recycle/in-your-area/manchester/recycling-centre#longley About the same distance is the tree station http://www.treestation.co.uk/faq/ but I dont know their hours

Even if you do get a partial collapse of the structure - dont be in a hurry to clear it up if it can be avoided (depends on garden size). Mature apple are excellent at self-layering (a bit like this but if you imagine the branch on the ground has arrived there due to a failure), so as long as there is space, if the tree ends up on the floor, with a bit of soil around the lower bough, you can very quickly have another tree growing quite fast, so no overall loss to the garden. But, of course, this approach may not suit some people's gardens.

Again a good point about being sign-written then covering up, but, doesn't having permanent decals or signage effect motor insurance? Might be something for the OP to check with his insurers first...

I cant recommend a specific type - but rather a feature of ones you do get. Make sure they have rounded, not pointed, corners. The pointed are more likely to uplift over time and subsequently come off when travelling, whereas the rounded are less likely to do so.

I would be careful about just taking someone else's business name, I would recommend avoiding it if you can. The reason is that it may be a good, catchy name, and you could find they are a reasonably reputable firm, so in the first instance you could wind them up somewhat as if you are trying to trade off their reputation. Conversely, anyone who has had a bad experience with them, may think you are the same company and you could lose business. I had someone who came and worked for me for a short while, then they set out on their own. I even specifically remember a conversation where he asked about the trading name and where it came from. I was not too bothered about him leaving, but when he started trading just down the road with a very similar trading name - well, it caused a lot of friction! Over the next couple of years I had several occasions where a customer would ring for one of us, but actually called the other company. Fortunately though, it turned out he was completely useless at running his own show and eventually went out of business. I was at the point of considering changing the business name to be disassociated with his shoddy work. If you really want to borrow someone elses business name, like the aspirational one above, why not use it as an inspiration for your name - but change it sufficiently enough to be different, for example "Ace Tree Care" becomes: Acer Tree Care Aces Tree Care Aesculus Tree Care or ... Tree Services ... Tree Management ... Tree Surgeons ... etc... (Just to check Doobop - whereabouts are you? I hope you are not 2 hours from me...)

Just had a look at this service - looks excellent. Thanks for the tip...

I can't find the paper I have read on this subject, but here is a pretty neat summary of the same research by Forest Research: Environmental benefits of greenspace - Flood risk alleviation (Forest Research) A lot of info - but puts a good evidence based view forward. So, the FB chap's view is not entirely without merit, just a little out of context...

Can you courier the saws ahead? I don't know the answer to that, but I think there was a fairly recent thread on something similar.

Excellent - thanks for finding these David. I couldn't access the transcripts the last time I tied for some reason. MI5 must know I'm such a dangerous political activist that they curtail the information I have access to...

No problem Steve. Let us know what pans out - its always interesting to hear the end of the story...

How about some wattle hurdles from coppiced hazel? You could put them in as a woven fence but this may be an obstruction, so with hurdles you can pick them up and move them when you need.

Perhaps its just me, but the females aren't putting it out much round here this year. Holly berries that is...

My reading of this is that the TPO *could* potentially be suspect, if it was not properly confirmed or issued to the owner. There is the case though, that if the TPO was placed on the public register (as it should be during the creation of a TPO), then there is the argument to say that the TPO is publicly available to the owner - but to be honest, this would be a little mean in the circumstances. In some instances, public notices are affixed to the property itself, so pinned to the gate of the woodland perhaps, and this can serve as giving the owner notice in their absence. Any decent TO would now either redraft the TPO ensuring all elements of the procedure are followed (flowchart), or failing that and assuming the TPO is valid, they should re-send the order to the owner. What I would do in the first instance though, is confirm with the TO that the TPO is actually valid and held against the correct iteration of the law at the time of its inception - if its not correct, then the TPO would be invalidated on these grounds alone.

Why not suggest to make it a specific fund raising effort for the school Jon, via the PTA? This way donors could put in what they want or can afford, while other parents who are cash poor could help via donating time for their part, for example by seeking external sponsorship etc. Its an honourable project Jon, it just has to be inclusive for all to be able to contribute in ways that they are able - but not financially compulsory.