Spruce Pirate

So, site will be mounded? c. 3000 stems per ha? You say its not deer fenced, so presumably its deer browsing your worried about, therefore minimum of 1.2m tree guards? I wouldn't recommend planting conifers in tubes, so presumably net guards of some sort? Trees to be 20/40s, 40/60s, 60/90s? Bare root I assume?

Its traditionally a hardwood / softwood divide, so yeah, probably follow the north / south divide quite well.

I wear specs anyway and have always found them useful for keeping things out of the eyes. I cant see (no pun intended) why anyone wouldn't use safety glasses and a visor - visor keeps big stuff out your face and specs keep dust out of your eyes. If I go to a site that insists on safety specs or I'll be told to go home how does that fit with the need for me to wear my prescription specs?

Husky and Stirlingshire But also do have a couple of Stihl, and cover most of central Scotland (and beyond if the price is right).

Any ground prep? If not does it need screefed? Does included mean that you need to supply plants etc or they are supplied? If we need to supply what specs? Do they really need staked and guarded?

Couldn't agree more. Refresher does have some merits, who pays is one of the biggest problems with it, that and content, it should be tailored to the individual which is difficult to translate into a cover all box ticking exercise which is what those pushing it will want.

Well done. In light of recent threads and posts on here, was there more emphasis on the actual felling or the legislation surrounding felling? I hope you don't mind me asking.

Salt spray from the roads after all the gritting over the winter?

A RA only needs to be recorded on paper if its for 5 people or more, unless the client demands it of course, I presume this is the case here. I agree, we all carry out mental RA's every day. What you need to assess is - what the risks are, who could be harmed, how they could be harmed and how you are going to prevent said people being harmed, the fifth step is to write all this down. Don't forget to update if situation changes. You can get some pretty swanky templates or copy books, but it can also be done on an old bit of scrap paper or the proverbial back of the fag packet (don't forget to assess the risks of smoking and associated fire risks if you're on the back of a fag packet ). The important thing about a RA is that it is relevant and carried out, not that it looks shiny, although I suspect a lot of companies prefer shiny to relevant.

Between this thread and the mandatory refresher thread, I am beginning to worry that the world really is going to Hell in a handbasket.

I agree wholeheartedly with the above, except I think the chairman is Tilhill, not SW. As far as the hardwood is concerned, this must be total nonsense. It has to either apply accross the board or not. Cutting trees proffessionally does not differentiate between hard and soft woods, there may be slightly different skills involved, but accidents happen in both hard and soft wood and this is supposed to be about increasing safety.

I was thinking about this today. It think the likes of FC, UPM, Fountain, Councils, Scottish Woodlands, NPA's, etc, etc should all back this up with a promise of hard cash. What I have in mind is if their tendering processes insist on seing refresher certs which have to be supplied with the tender as proof then they should all garuantee a minimum wage for saw operators. A minimum mind, nothing to stop them paying more . So, for example, minimum price for a CS30/31 operator should be, lets say £15 / hour; CS32 - £17.50 / hour; CS 34/35 £20 / hour, climbers... riggers ..... you get the idea. There's nothing to stop you tendering a price of £25 / hour for a CS30/31 if that's what you feel you need to put on the job, but at least we would have a minimum in place. Realistically, if we know these prices most of us would bid at the minimum to try and win the work, but at least then its up to us to sell ourselves on our merits, rather than cut our throats on costs. I will now return from the land of fantasy with a bump, but it was a nice visit.

As far as I know, yes. Never hired a grinder, but have had chippers out on hire and never been asked for a cert. Individual hire companies may have different rules though.

Sorry, but this has nothing to do with the government's revenue. There are all sorts of problems with the way we train chainsaw use in this country and refresher training is not going to sort them. As an idea I think it has some merit points, but it is not the be all and end all, you can be refreshed and still be a dangerous operator. Those who bemoan the safety record should take a long hard look at their procurement procedures and question why they are based either entirely, or largely biased towards price. Pay peanuts - get monkeys, simples. If you want a highly skilled operator you might have to pay for one, oh and I agree with Craobh, it will always be dangerous as long as you have a man (or woman, I've been told off for that before), a saw and a big lump of wood. This will not change, no matter what refresher we do, but skilled operators should be able to minimise the danger.

Agreed. And maybe if the certificats concentrated more on actual chainsaw and felling safety and less on which permission you needed from the council, which birds you need to look for, etc they would be more effective.

As said before: HSE are concerned about the high accident rate in forestry and have decreed that the industry must sort it out or they will step in. The industry bigwigs have got together and come up with FISA to try and improve our safety record. They are trying to achieve a reduction in accidents. It appears that refresher training has worked in other industries (I think, but I'm willing to be corrected) and so it is firmly on the cards for us. I will need to read the proposals further before deciding if it is any way meaningful refresher training. A series of tick boxes will do very little to actually improve safety. Refresher might be the best option, at one time re-certification was talked about, although this might also have some merit in weeding out truly poor operators.

Why not do the refresher first - then you're ahead of the game when you do the ticket. I think I was told one day training, one day assessment, but I haven't done it. If its anything like normal you could probably do the training in the morning and assessment in the afternoon, if you could organise a training provider who would do it for you. Can't remember the price I was quoted.

I went to Canada once (visiting relatives) and some of the language is quite different. Not very different, just different meanings and people don't know what you mean immediately and that was just normal conversation. I think its worse when you get into industry specifics (whatever industry). Its all good though, we're all expanding our understanding and vocabulary.

We just call them woodcutters don't we?

Give her the cash then, and a lift to Buftons.

Mine too, I've bought at least three different brands from them, and put at least the same in to get worked on. I agree the margin on a saw isn't much, but it maintains the relationship. A good dealer is a man with whom it is well worth cultivating a good relationship with. I can put a saw in and walk out with one on a borrow until it's done and you certainly can't do that over the interweb.

Language thing is getting me again too. What's a timber cruiser? I could google it, but it's much more fun to ask here.

Yes, it should be a test of competence, not speed (but don't be geologically slow). Most assessors I've ever met are reasonable people who are quite able to get the information out of you they need. They are not going to fail you because you didn't give them the exact phrase from the book in the exact order it's written in.

Fair enough. I originally thought the problem was the posting to NI, not the posting of the saw. Wondered if it was like our highlands & islands restrictions on anywhere north of Perth.

Yeah, but you keep money in the local economy and you build a relationship with the local dealer who will be able to work on your saw there and then, rather than have to post it back and wait for its return. You pay for the local service and availability. Not to say you don't get good service from Jones, all I've heard about them has been good.