Aspen@AAOIL

Hey guys, 

Sorry I didn't reply over the weekend, I did see that there had been some interesting replies in this thread but I did not feel that I could do these questions any justice responding from my phone.

Gardenkit has done a great job as always by stepping in and answering most of the questions but I will try to cover your questions in one go to try to clear things up and apologies in advance if something is missed as i am sure you can understand it is difficult to answer 10s of questions at once.

Firstly i think it is important to tackle the question regarding my bold claim which was essentially saying that Aspen 2 is the best 2-stroke mix for your chainsaws/powertools. It's important to note that when I talk about the best 2-stroke mix for your machines, I am always referring to your 2-stroke power tools which Aspen is designed for. Aspen 2 is not designed for competition 2-stroke motorcycles, just like redline racing (or any other bike oil) is not designed for chainsaws... These applications place different requirements on the oil. It is important to also note that the role of a 2-stroke oil is not only to lubricate the engine internals. It must also keep the combustion chamber clean, mix well with petrol, not lower the performance of fuels combustibility, keep smoke levels down and not clog the exhaust.

The Jaso standard which have been brought up in this topic are ratings which were designed to help consumers choose the best oils for their 2-stroke scooters. typically in cramped cities where there are much more 2-stroke bikes than in the UK, these bikes have a very negative impact on the local air quality and in general an FD oil would improve this over an FA. As Gardenkit already mentioned however, these tests are not difficult to pass and there are no tests or gradings which show oils which surpass these requirements. for more information on JASO ratings i suggest you look on google and you can find the specifications.

The oil in Aspen 2 changed in late 2014 as newer and better oil technology became available. Stihl 4-mix engines in particular, are very demanding on the quality of 2-stroke oils and many oils on the market will cause the valve stems to soot up and fail (as would the previous blend of aspen oil). Over 1000’s of hours of field testing of various 2-stroke blends along with tests in the lab made Aspen decide on the Oil which you will now find in Aspen 2.

Its also very important to note that the 2-stroke oil portion of your fuel/oil mix is only 2% on a 50:1 mix. The rest is made up of the petrol you choose to mix it with which also makes a difference to the protection of your engine and a much greater difference to the exhaust emissions which can have a negative effect on operator health. The oil mix is only as good as the operator is at mixing and by using a ready mixed fuel such as Aspen 2, you do not have to worry about the consistency of this blend.

As Garden kit mentioned. Aspen’s reputation and business model relies on supplying the best fuels for man, machine and environment and they are constantly looking to make improvements as new technologies become available. As the 2-stroke oil is a very big part of what makes our product unique, it is not sold on its own and the recipe/specs are not readily available as you must appreciate.

Aspen sells over 50 million litres of fuel each year specifically for small engine machinery such as chainsaws and are regarded as the market leader in this sector. Popularity is constantly growing as happy customers experience the difference.

That sounds about right! Rest assured that your machines are getting the best protection if you are using Aspen 2  

On 24/12/2018 at 07:42, Rough Hewn said:

 

Anyone know which lubricant oil is in aspen2?

A mechanic recently told me he was seeing lots of machines with piston wear after using aspen2.

Is this lies?

 

I don't know why this mechanic would say that, it is certainly not an issue that we have seen and over 50 million litres of Aspen is sold each year so plenty of testing!

The oil in Aspen 2 is not available separately and is of a quality which exceeds anything on the market for 2 stroke power tools. It is fully synthetic and bio-degradable with a low Ash content and High lubricity.

If you would be able to send me a pm with the name of the dealer, i can investigate further as to whats going on to cause him to say what he did

7 minutes ago, Joe Newton said:

I couldn't speak for him, but probably!

 

Not knocking your product, but if it were more competitive it'd be far more attractive. I figure 5l of pump fuel and decent 2 stroke costs me between £8-9 quid.  Can't remember what aspen cost, but its more than a couple of quid dearer!

I wish it could be cheaper too as it would make my job a lot easier! 

I know it sounds a lot more expensive than using regular 2-stroke mix on paper, £9 compared to £15.50 - £20 depending on how its purchased, but in reality, 2-stroke fuel is a very small part of your outgoings as a tree surgeon and most people who make the switch quickly realise that the benefits far outweigh the small increase in operating expenses.

It's one of those things that are hard to justify until you have used it for an extended period of time. A bit like using a ported saw in a way, once you've used the ported version, the standard version will usually feel far inferior.

16 minutes ago, Joe Newton said:

Why do you think he said "without"?

Not that it matters but IMO, probably because he doesn't see the benefits of Aspen enough to justify the cost over regular fuel, what do you think?. Wasn't trying to "threadjack" but merely offering some advice and provide some facts ?

On 03/12/2018 at 08:08, Woodworks said:

Just quoting what I have been told when asked about ported saw previously. Never used one myself. I want clean emissions without going to the expense of Aspen

Sorry to be the bringer of bad news but you will never get close to the emission benefits of running Aspen without actually using it.

An old chainsaw will have much lower benzene emissions running on Aspen than the leanest burning new models on the market running regular petrol.

14 hours ago, Little Al said:

What are the perceived advantages of Aspen bar oil & its use I can understand the possible advantages of the fuel ( never used it as commercially we use to much & within the time frame of pump fuel )Aspen fuel price would be prohibitive but even bog std reclaimed oil works with tacifier & the passed sell by date is a long time hence

Hi Al,

The Aspen bio-chain oil (new version came out this year) is designed to provide optimum lubrication to the chain and oil pump. compared to many bio chain oils (including the previously available Aspen version) Aspen bio chain oil can be left in machines for a much longer period without hardening or causing blockages within the oil pump. Previously, domestic customers in particular have been put of from using bio chain oils from this reason and this product allows them to use it instead of mineral oils (we all know why they are bad). 

I do admit that the benefits of the Aspen chain oil compared to something else on the market are not as big as the difference between Aspen fuel and regular petrol however, which is a night and day improvement in terms of emissions and ease of handling.

Aspen being too expensive to use commercially however, i would strongly disagree with. You can't put a price on health and most companies end up surprising themselves on how much fuel they actually use when they switch to Aspen. More often than not, it is far less than they thought in the first place, making it not as expensive as they first thought.

Hi Stuart,

Can confirm that the Aspen bio-chain oil is not made from palm oil but we wont be re-branding it for Iceland either way

On 19/11/2018 at 15:52, peatff said:

 

Probably because the staff are not filling a couple of extra cans at the garage for homework any more

you said it not me...  

HSE advices no more than 30 litres of petrol should be stored at a residential address. for a business there is no limit on this as long as the correct risk assessments have been completed and the fuel is stored safely.

On 16/11/2018 at 17:46, steve collins said:

It is worth using for the health benefits but, i average around 800-1000 liters fuel a year

 

Pump fuel costs av £1.40 L down here so £1400 a year

Aspen is £3.04(bulk pricing) L  so £3048 a year

 

£1648 a year difference - to make this work id have to cut at least an extra ton/m3 in the wood a day

 

I have seen the can and used it. Its  well thought out but wouldn't want to damage it though

 

Hi Steve,

Don't forget to include the cost of 2-stroke oil when making this kind of comparison. a basic 2 stroke oil is going to cost about 0.13 pence per litre (+vat) when purchased in bulk  and something similar to the oil used in Aspen 2 would set you back around 35 pence per litre (+VAT).

based on 800 litres your cost would then be £1037 + VAT compared to £2032 + VAT for Aspen. This price for Aspen includes delivery to your site which often saves a lot of time travelling to get fuel  and your machinery will benefit in terms of performance in the long run.

unfortunately your fuel usage is going to be much higher than most people on this forum if your work involves constant felling but its worth considering that generally, the higher your fuel usage, the higher your exposure will be to the nasties in regular petrol.

From experience of talking to companies who make the switch over to Aspen. More often than not, their fuel usage seems to decrease so the cost is generally not as bad as first thought. If this is down to an actual decrease in fuel usage or if the volume of fuel they thought they were using was over-inflated is hard to tell but it's generally always a positive outcome for the business.

On 13/11/2018 at 16:05, aesmith said:

It should be taxed at a lower rate than road fuel, I think Aspen have being trying to fight that one.

100% 

Hopefully this is an issue which can be addressed post brexit... We will start a new petition and with the help of this forum i hope we can drum up some momentum before talking to the people who set fuel duty in the UK once again.

On 13/11/2018 at 14:57, Dbikeguy said:

Dealers should have big drums that we can then go in and refill our own fuel cans. much greener solution, should work out cheaper too as less plastic involved and shipped in barrels not pallets of bottles.
Dealers could sell an approved buy once bottle for punters to buy it for home use. Could even be taxed different for agricultural use?

This would be great but unfortunately the investment for dealers to do this properly would be very high. I hope that one day this could be a service that can be offered but this can only happen if more and more business' get behind the product with the options available today in order to grow the volume to allow this to happen.

On 16/11/2018 at 12:54, Dbikeguy said:

according to aspens website, not yet available in the uk..
any ideas on when it might be?

We hope to have them in the UK early 2019, they are making a few small changes before they are ready for retail. Sorry about teasing everyone at the shows for so long with this but good things come to those who wait... 

WOW at the amazing feedback offered in this thread. The difference in the level of positive response from when we first came onto arbtalk many years ago is incredible to see.

Just a thought, to anyone reading this who works for a company which doesn't currently provide alkylate petrol, get in touch via PM and we can send you all the information you need in order to show them how Aspen can benefit their business.

?

On 25/08/2018 at 09:26, Dbikeguy said:

 

Tried searching for this, picked some up from skyland previously and saws ran well on it,

they are a bit of a jaunt away so looking for somewhere more local to Derby

will then stick up.

anybody know who stocks it?

 

cheers

 

 

You can get Aspen 2 from Nu-blades in Derby http://www.mowerpro.co.uk/lawnmower-dealers/nu-blades 

Hi AllyH

If the machine is in good condition mechanically, there is nothing to say it cant be run on Aspen 2. if the machine hasnt been used for a long time however you might need to replace carb diaphragms or retune it to run on Aspen however.

On 28/02/2018 at 19:12, Elmsdown Forestry said:

That was my plan as getting pissed at waiting on the 2 stroke but the dealer checked with husky technical and they strongly advise not doing this. Apparently there fuel is completely different to aspen and adding 2t oil to it won’t work. How true this is I don’t know. 

Aspen has been the leading producer in alkylate fuels for small engined machinery since 1988 and this isnt about to change any time soon! so yes it is different to Aspen.

Not being able to run the 572xp on pump fuel with correctly mixed good quality 2-stroke oil is nonsense (check the manual) although if you are looking for the best fuel/oil for your machines and your health in general however, then Aspen 2 is available from over 350 stockists in the UK Today! https://aspenfuel.co.uk/where-to-buy/

No worries stubby, just dont want you or anyone to think that we are difficult to deal with because i would like to thinkthat we are the opposite. If a dealer has been neglected since Eddie stopped working for us then its great if we can be made aware. its hard to deal with a problem if you arent aware of it...

Just so you are aware, nothing in our policy has changed since Eddie has left which would make it dificult for a dealer to stock our products.

1 hour ago, Stubby said:

I went to my dealer to get some Aspen and he told he is having problems with the Aspen rep ( since Eddie left ) and they wont deliver to him unless he buys a whole lorry load . He has Stihl Moto mix as well but told me in a couple of weeks he will be getting in Husqvarnas own brand of Alkalite fuel .  Would this just be rebaged Aspen or slightely different again ? 

Hi Stubby, do you care to share with me the name of your local dealer. Perhaps in a PM rather than on the public forum.

Husqvarna fuel has no connection with Aspen, it is produced by a third party. Aspen is the original alkylate fuel and is the only company to produce their fuel in-house.

FYI most dealers order Aspen on a pallet which consists of 54 cans but we dont have a minimum order as such. Garden kit sells this in a week during peak times in the summer to put it in perspective

On 17/12/2017 at 18:53, Boggle4137 said:

I havent, ive done a bit of research on aspen, do you mean the oil or the ready made mixture?

99.9% of people would mean Aspen 2 (ready made mixture) https://aspenfuel.co.uk/products/aspen-fuel/#aspen2 

@Pureevil222

wow thats some story and as you say, you have gone into a lot of trouble if it was to cover up a lie.

Aspen 2 is the same as Aspen 4 just with added oil so the smell is very similar. As you say, if it was neat "gas" in the tank then you would certainly be able to smell the difference.

good luck with your quest to get your machine fixed. from what you have said it doesn't sound like you are in the wrong and if the machine has done as little work as it has then it should be obvious by the condition of the saw.

Just for the record, leaving modern fuel (gas) in your machine for a long period of time can cause carburetor issues which arent covered under warranty. Its a shame that the shop didn't sell your father Aspen 2 from day 1! 

sounds like something doesn't add up here.

Are you saying that the machine seized instantly, the first time your dad went to use it after they repaired it? before your dad even got to use the chainsaw? and that they didnt show him that it was running when he picked it up?

Hi Ed,

There are no plans to bring the 20L aspen cans to the UK for the simple reason that you cannot sell petrol in plastic cans larger than 10L in the UK.

Speak to your local dealer and ask if they have any offers on buying multiple cans at one time 

Axel

4 Mix engines must be run on low ash 2-stroke oils or you will run into soot build up on the valve stems which will lead to a breakdown in the long run.

The oil in Aspen 2 was upgraded to offer the best protection when these machines came to market.