arb culture

Thanks everyone. Josharb, I've asked the link for a rough price. Ferdinand, it hasn't actually got that far yet - still at negotiation stage - but thanks for the offer.

Tommer, do you care to expand - where did christianity come from? If you can include your sources in your reply that would be helpful.

Thanks Ferdinand, I'm looking for one or two trees in West Yorkshire. Cost shouldn't be too much of an issues unless it's silly money. It's for a planning condition, so the client is a bit desperate. I'm just trying to work out whether it's feasible to plant these trees, or whether to forget the whole scheme and start again. I have a suspicion that there are hidden costs in these things, so I was wondering if anyone had direct experience.

I partially agree, but if you agree to be employed as a consultant you have a duty to give your client the information which they need to make an informed decision - even if that information, and their informed decision, is contrary to your own personal values or beliefs.

Thanks Andrew, I didn't expect you to reply to that question (some people are a bit sensitive about sharing pricing information). I think we are agreed then that in the vast majority of cases a quick visual check by a competent surveyor is all that can be reasonably expected - and is undoubtably the best value for money. In the very rare and unusual cases where a competent surveyor cannot make a decision based solely on the visual evidence then other more expensive investigative procedures should be adopted. These further investigations can rapidly become very expensive, and tie the owner in to further expense for an ongoing period of time. Of course, if the cost of felling the tree is less than the cost of your surveys, then often the tree will be felled rather than further investigated.

Just wondered if there's anyone on here who's got experience of planting trees approx 25cm to 35cm diameter and how much it costs.

I'm interested, thanks Bundle! 001_smile:

How much would you charge to do all of the above on a tree?

There's some more references here... Some are more focussed on the issue of tree pulling than others, but all contain useful and relevent info. Gilman, E. F. (2003) Branch to stem diameter ratio affects strength of attachment. Journal of Arboriculture, 29(5) 291-294 Cullen S. (2005) Trees and Wind a practical consideration of the drag equation velocity exponent for urban tree risk management. Journal of Arboriculure 31(3) 101-113 Kane, B. and Farrell, R (2008) Failure mode and prediction of the strength of branch attachments. Arboriculre and Urban Forestry 34(5)308-316. Kane, B. and Clouston, P. (2008) Tree pulling of large shade trees in the genus Acer. Arboriculture and Urban Forestry 34(2) 101-109. Brudi, E (2001) Longitudinal prestresses in Tilia cordata and Acer Pseudoplatanus. Thesis dissertation accessed online 20/4/09 via http://www.tree-consult.org/html/eng/articles/statics.htm Brudi, E, and Wassenaer, P. (2001) Fracture diagnostics of trees Stadt und Grün 1995, No.6, pp. 416-422.accessed online 18/4/09 via http://www.tree-consult.org/html/eng/articles/statics.htm Mattheck, C, Bethge, K., and Kraft, O. (2008) Are the failure criteria of SIA and tree pulling tests wrong? Arboricultural Journal 31(3) 181-188. Gordon, J.E. (1978) Structure: or why things don't fall down. Penguin Books, London. Gordon, J.E. (1968) The new science of strong materials: or why you don't fall through the floor. Penguin Books, London. The books by Gordon I would suggest are essential reading for anyone wanting to go down the engineering principles route of tree assessment. But that's probably just me.

Why are you planning on spending time and money on training on a system that you don't even know whether you agree with? The general rule of science (and common sense) is that if someone has a theory or an idea, the onus is on them to prove it works, not on everyone else to prove that it doesn't. For (an extreme) example, I certainly wouldn't pay to go and do training in crystal healing just to decide whether it works or not - life is too short and there are just too many wrong ideas out there.

I've got a few more stashed away in the library somewhere, but like I say - see if you can find a convincing argument from them desribing how they deal with shear forces and heavy limbs on hollow trees.

That would be really good. I'm a bit busy at the mo, but I'll send you a pm within a couple of weeks to sort something out. I'm sure I could learn a lot from you too. Remind me if you've not heard from me within a week or two.

No you don't. If you think a tree is imminently dangerous, then let the TO know and get on with whatever work you see fit to make it safe. But be extremely careful if following this course of action as it will be up to you and your client to prove, on balance, that the tree was dangerous. If you think the tree is dangerous but don't want to go down this route then just make an application and include whatever evidence you've got, the photos you've put on here will be more than sufficient. The legislation is quite clear that LAs can ask for more evidence but not demand it. If the LA refuse permission to do the works you see fit to make the tree safe then take it to appeal. If you do all this then you will be making sure that you and your client have done all that is reasonably practicable (I have this in writing from HSE). By the way, I'm not saying what works are needed, I can't tell just from the photos. But if the tree is protected in the public interest, then let the public purse take responsibility for it - that's only fair.

Nice info, thanks Marcus, I'll check this out.

Next time I'm in your part of the world I'll send you a PM. We could meet up, and I might be able to give you some pointers if you're interested. I'm sure you'll get to where you want to be on your own, but it might be a bit easier and quicker with some insights from someone who's already had to fight and work their way through. If you're at the AA conference in September I might see you there?

Fair point, but after going through the thought process on various threads (mainly with you Hama) I've decided not to sell them. They are specific to me and my client's needs, and I believe that if I put them on here I would have to spend an awful long time explaining/defending the thought process behind them. However, I think you have already been given links to all sorts of useful sites (by me and others) containing guidance and templates. You should be able to work it out for yourself now. Lisa, another document which might be useful for you is: Guidance Note 7 ? Tree Surveys: A Guide to Good Practice I've not read it myself, but it might be useful.

Chill pill now taken, sorry for being a bit OTT. I'm sure you are soemone who can appreciate the annoyance of being accused of being both selfish and insecure by someone who I've never met and who doesn't know me or my work though. By the way, the tithe is not tax dodge; it's 10% after tax - the tax man has no interest in it, it's my own money.

Tony, just wondering, have you got a better idea?

There's loads of points there. Just to pick up on a couple though: I'd suggest that the vast majority of trees are in fact low value, not medium value. The curve will be similar to the stem diameter curves for a natural woodland. Most CA notifications are for trees of no significant value (or they were in the LA where I worked, yours might be different Tony). Under the current CA system when a tree owner sends a notification that they intend to 'prune' a tree there's nothing a TO can practicably do to stop them other than put a TPO on the tree in question. If the tree is low value and they don't put a TPO on it then the owner can prune the tree however they see fit. I'm suggesting nothing different in this respect. However, if the tree in question is already known to be low value, why waste time going to look at it? It doesn't matter what the quality of the notification is like if the tree is not worthy of a TPO.

Lisa, I don't know if it's any use, but have a look at Marcus's THREATS for the pc thread. It might help, I don't know.

Thanks for the reply Bundle, I found that I got acqainted with the area just by doing site visits. Don't forget, I'm not suggesting the end of TPOs, just that trees in urban and peri urban ares are subject to protection similar to trees in CA areas at the moment. You also get to know an area through the various development apps that come in, and throught the TPOs you are supposed to keep up to date. I hope you get the opportunity to experience TO work Bundle, it can be very rewarding.

Oh, and by the way, I'm not insecure about my reports, I've fought their corner against tree officers, PINS, angry locals, planning officers... And I'm nearly always shown to be right in the end. That's exactly why I don't want to give them away, they work and they are valuable. And please don't accuse me of being selfish either. Ever heard of tithing, it's were you give away 10% of your income to people who need it. I tithe. You really should stop assuming things about people you've never met.

I hear what you are saying Hama, but I wouldn't go to a garage and ask them to mend my car for free. I don't deal in mending cars, I deal in doing tree reports. I have worked very hard to build up a client base who understand and trust me. Part of that is the development of good templates which meet the need of those clients. In an ideal utopia I would be happy to share my templates with you in the sure knowledge that the garage would be equally happy to mend my car for free, but this is not an ideal world. We all have to work to earn money, and part of that work sometimes includes the creation or use of intellectual property which has value. I'm glad you're doing a degree by the way, I'm sure that if you approach it with an open mind you'll get more out of it than you suspect you will at the moment.

Just out of curiosity Hama, what's stopping you going self employed?