jaime bray

reference to quarter expenses, it should read turnover not expenses

Steve this post is not aimed at you directly, but some of the content may connect with your post about cost of living going up. One of the issues to consider, especially within the domestic market, is that although the cost of living has gone up. Unfortunately with some of the 'bread and butter' work that employers rely on to break even in the quiet periods or when a day just can not be as productive, increasing the price for this work is a considerably hard sales pitch from the employer to the 12 years of loyalty client. There are many untrained and inexperienced people operating within the tree industry as a company or self employed gardeners/ tree companys, and many take away the bread and butter work that employers rely on. Some of which find training as they go, others pick it up as they go, others get a job in a diiferent industry when it arises. These are the people threatening the employers standard of living that he, like his employees, would like or have become accustomed too. The quality of their work may not be to dissimiliar to the work we did at the start of our careers, however, they will do their sales pitch, come in a lot cheaper and maybe for that year only, take the trade away. We all lose!! Bread and butter work; okay we'll pay you bread and butter wages. Top notch work; okay we'll pay you with a golden ticket too. This situation is not feasible. There needs to be a balance set between employer and employee. If this balance is influenced by the local market and the supply and demand of tree workers/ arborists/ ground persons and the demand by the client for the work, in that area, then that is a consideration for the person to decide what they do. If we were to turn around to full time staff and say listen lads your on 80 today as the two jobs youre doing are not good earners, but do not worry as next week i am on a right nice job where by we'll all cream it in. So you'll get 150 a day, employees would not stay with the company. An additional factor maybe that employers often hear people say how good they are, only to see the person shaking like a pooping dog when arriving on site and seeing a tree of 80-120ft over a green house, with a small drop zone and awful branch structure. Prices within a company/employee/ subbie relationship will stagnate, with appropriate communication it may be resolvable. If as a sub-contract climber came to me and said i want 190 a day, id say no worries, do you mind if i guarantee you a minmum of 120-150 for the first day as I am reluctant to commit to your opinion of yourself, and would rather protect my pocket and judge for myself. If that person was amazingly competent, proficient, polite, punctual, conscientious and a breath of fresh air, id say, listen unfortuantely I do not get the kind of work to warrant paying someone with your skill base that figure all the time, as most of my work is relatively easy in comparison to the more taxing jobs, so ill give you a call when i get a good job for a man of your calibre. Id imagine that if the local market didnt depict that level of wage, that he'd say ok what would you pay me for a day or two here and there. if not he'd move on and work for somebody else or end up working for himself if hes that good. Wages will vary not only nationally but locally, as we all have different living costs, and business models. What employees need to be aware of is that they can at any point, within the binding content of their contract walk away and go else where, sub contractors can decide, that they do not want to work for such a wage and go else where. Employers; they to have rights, and can decide what they feel is an adequate wage for them to pay staff within the law. If neither is happy, then the laws of this fine land in which we all live enable us to make arrangements for said situation to be changed. It was said to me at business school that you should try and ensure that your wages, over the course of a year, equate to no more than a quarter of the company annual expenses. If this is not the case and you regulary are paying more or less then it MAYBE the case that something may need to be looked at. If your not happy with your cars fuel consumption you change it, same as your gas supplier and wife.... If youre not happy with your employer then change it, or at least broach the subject with them in an orderly and considered manner. Why are you worth more. Put yourself in the shoes of the employer trying to justify his price to a client and justify yourself to him. If your good at it, you'll get the wage rise, if not you either drop your price or say let somebody else do it for that then, and part company. Can not beleive Ive write all that. haha.

I find that simply by turning them inside out AFTER washing that dries them out in about half the time, although they do not dry out overnight to be fair even inside out way. But a spare pair of old trousers does ease the turn around time

Thanks rigger bear, The document is downloadable from the AA website under help for arborists icon should you wish to have a better copy. Are you aware of the AA welsh branch and the activity going on there at the moment? If you want to get involved please feel free to contact me at [email protected] It has been taken over by a new chairman and things are moving on well.

Could it be the case that as an employer if you have made efforts to make a form of comminucation known to all employees and it is a step to making the site safe and an accident occurs, then maybe if everybody has had a copy or signed a sheet to say that they are aware of the company communication system when on site, then it may help defend against any mal practice in such unfortunate casesas anaccident occuring? Does anybody have any experience of defensible and not defensible actions etc in the workplace? Thanks for the comments

200m away you cant miss two arms out to the side, especially if in hivis jackets not vests. I think tapping the helmet means mind your heads below, to which a groundie could maybe respond with arms out to the side. this would inform the climber that as far as everyone is aware the job can proceed. Thanks for feedback

Thanks you for the response. It was decided early on in the process that to be completely inclusive of every aspect of arboricultural operations would not be feasible as we all do things differently. But that something as a base to work from would be good. If new employees are able to come in to your company and you can say this is the basic form of communication we use, it will assist us and you in keeping the site safe if you become familiar with them, then it will only serve as a benefit in the long run. We also wanted it to be double sided A4 sheet to fit in the health and safety folder that many vans now have, so this became a restrictive factor to the extent we could go to, but primarily we felt that an exhaustive list was not feasible and may have become too confusing. Thanks Jaime

Thanks for your feedback, Re. the one handed signals, the siganals were trialled on a few large tree jobs in busy urban areas where shouting was deemed unorofessional and the noise factor meant that the you couldnt hear the other person regardless. With the larger trees, feedback from climbers was that although you can see one hand up, a thumb or hand up was still awkward to completely see. Two arms out is quite distinctive and could not be confused with anything else. thanks jaime

Thats a 1000 though... get in there ya bad boy

Gutted it was a premalink figure

Pete, i shall make note and report back to the group. Some do feel counter intuitive, but was trying to tie into as many scenarios as possible. Do you do much crane work? Is the arms out a standard sign for crane work. my memory of the task research eludes me.

Andy, Do you have a communication code for your company? Fancy releasing this to the lads and trialing it for a week? Cheers jaime

Haha. no, not had the joy yet. By the way 1000th post on this thread. I am made up fellas!!!!

Absolutely, we were in a back garden situ this week, and the sun was just reflecting awkwardly in the morning dew, so the climber asked if we could put the hi-vis on. Good communication never hurt, and we didnt mind sweating a bit in them if it meant he saw us clearer.

The two handed sign for ok was deemed to be inkeeping with the fact that if an assessment had been made by the groundsman and it was deemed ok then a clear two arms out wide would not be too much of a hinderence, as you would have carried out an assessment and taken stock of the situ, and be in control. Somebody else mentioned how awkward it would be if you are holding a rigging rope, but I tried on several occasions; that were a high pedestrian occupation environment and rigging was taking place, to find it awkward, but just couldnt see why a rope in hand would stop you putting your hand up. In relation to the stop go board, would that be a work situation that you would only have two people on site. I have always tried to ensure that in road side work that is in need of traffic management, regardless of the stop go board, there is three people on site. Everybody operates differently... The group felt that there was a need for that ultimate stop gesture. It is a natural instinct when you are trying to exert more effectiveness in any gesturing to do it with more emphasism, hence the two handed up in the air seemed an instinctive reaction to this emergency situ. I hear what you are saying though. Do you have a formal communication system at your work place that all staff are aware of. Would you consider trialling these hand signals to see how effective they are? Anything can be modified. Its not set in stone, the AA publishers can alter things if need be as this document is available as a download and no loss of monies will occur as it hasnt been printed for release, just downloadable under help for arborists Thanks for the reply.

This threads so near to a thousand posts.... Am I said for noticing such things. BTW silky foxs silky saves the day thread is flying.. Haha. yes i confirm my own question. im sad for noticing it!!!

Dear All, Some time ago the Arborists Working Group produced a set of hand signals for communicating in some situations that arise within arboricultural work. The original thread and industry feedback was a thread called 'Ouch mind your head' (see thread for consultation discussion) I have started a new thread as the old thread title was not very appropriate and doesnt come up at the top of the list when you search 'hand signals' in arbtalk. My reason for posting is to try and ascertain as to whether any of you have used it or found it to be of value yet in a work situation? Please find attached the guidance note and I hope to get any feed back from any previous posters, or new posters ref this topic. Thanks for reading. Jaime Bray AA_Hand_Signals Completed.pdf

No, it wasnt aimed at anyone, was a general assessment of how I see things at times within the arboricultural industry. There were parts to my posts in relation to this thread that had elelments of 'jumped to conclusions' entailed. Its human nature. Was merely trying to create awareness; through what has been a good thread, of the issues and likely occurances of conclusion forming without due consideration.

I think that there is a lesson to be learnt by many relating to this thread. I think that it is often the case that arbs will see something and say that must be the case, this is also evident in the research carried out into AOD, whereby scientists are having to reassess their initial opinions and readjust. Is it a bad thing to jump in with an opinion about stuff before carrying out sufficient probing questioning that may at a later stage alter your opinion. If we ever find ourselves in court, then the rule of the third question from lawyers will make you look a fool if snap conclusions are made without prior consideration. The first question draws out an opinion, the second gets you to further support that opinion but does so in a slightly different manner, the third gets you to then REALISE THAT THE SECOND ANSWER YOU GAVE COMPLETELY CONTRADICTS THE PRINCIPLES OF THE FIRST QUESTION AND MAKES YOU LOOK A FOOL. In some ways 18 stoner i applaud the manner in which this thread has evolved.. Theres lots to be learnt from this about client management and professional conduct and opinion giving. I think as we evolve into a consultants role and even as the industry moves into a more professional status, when we engage with other professions on site our conduct must begin to adapt if we are to raise the industries professional status and profile. By being considered and thoughtout will arboriculture benefit from the approach of its operatives. I personally think so!!

Try keith irvine based down at crick. what he doesnt know about timberwolf chippers isnt worth knowing. Hes very fair with his work and will look after you. i was down there friday and he has a couple of 2007+ plus machines in ready to roll.

18 stoner, My comment ref spiking was in response to your statement about spiking up a big tree and crashing it down. The statement as written gives off the impression of bish bash bosh tree work... yeahhhhhhhhhh.. However, if it had been written with the reader in mind, you could have said there is something satisfying about climbing above the point of the final cuts and then spiking up and crashing stuff down. A lot of comments made in writing have no expression attached and therefore get construed in the wrong way. My comment; Wait for it you spiked a tree to be retained, on page 7 of the thread,was a sarcastic comment written in the third person aimed at the no spikey no likey a retained tree brigade, and was designed to pre-empt the reaction from the manner in which your initial post ref spiking was written. If there is one thing additionally good about arbtalk, it is the fact that when posting to fellow professionals, after a while of reading the many discussions explaining posts and their meanings, it prepares you for further educational studying and writing, and makes you realise that although what you think reads well, it may be read different by a fellow professional or a layman. I havent got a degree in Englsh writing and my writing would be torn apart by a professional writer, but hey ho. As for posting on arbtalk and uktc, you never know who, how or in what mood somebody is going to read and respond to your words. You could have gone out last night and had a skin full of ale, had a row with a mate or the wife and woke up with a right bag on, to then read this post and find insult in it. however nothing could be further from the truth, there is no insult contained within this post. But merely an awareness of how things continually get mis-construed without sufficient explanation at the outset. P.s. i acknowledge your post relating to gauging opinion first. Was the spiking comment designed to antagonise/ create discusion or a freudian slip. As said by some, a good post and a good thread. maybe a thread should be started. 'Work you (meaning the genral forum not 18 stoner) did that wasnt for aesthetic value', enabling a more rounded arboricultural practice to be discussed.

You'll be doing the school run in pesticide spraying wellies

Who??? Is he the owner of some comical team you support. Bless you. cant climb to save your life and you follow chelsea. Its no wonder you sell them t-shirts so prcey if thats where you go the weekends. How many do you have to sell to get your season ticket. 12!!!!x.x.x.x. wink wink.

It may be prudent to say Mr 18 stoner, that there has merely been a shift in the services that the tree provides, with perhaps a reduction of one attribute but an increase in another service provide by the green infrastructure with which we all need.

have a pair made by a company called 'seals'. They arent to bad and they're water proof too.