jaime bray

In tonys defence he is developing the technical content for the scheme, its a massive task, one which i hasten to add he is doing voluntarily. Resulting in him not having time to come in arbtalk as often as im sured he'd like to answer questions A lot of the work will be done voluntarily, there will inevitably be some aspects that can not be completed without capital injection but a lot of people are giving up their time to try and see if this can get going. I know,,,,, you didnt ask them too, but just to diffuse the whole whos turning their ford focus into a maserati mindset.

Oops... See it aint easy picking out all these questions, its an annual fee chap

R2 committee would call that a pilot place and its free for the entirity of the pilot phase. There after you would be biting your finger nails to ensure you were professionalising yourself through R2.lol

Sorry gareth, I am unfamiliar with other schemes or the history of other schemes trying to be established.

Treequip, Im off to bed, just thought id tell you so as you do not think that im avoiding answering questions. Sweet dreams, I know you'll sleep well with the prospect of being the first R2 registraint rushing through your mind... Dont tell me, you'll have nitemares. lol

Treequip, trying to answer as many questions as possible and decypher them from posts.

Its not purely about the old and young scenario, but due to the schemes design in that experiences within the industry are acknowledged and in certain cases required then it can be used to recognise operatives skills and actual experiences within their current daily work.

Cost will be between £22.50 and £29.50 per license/registraint. Funded by the purchase of licenses, as with anything that is bought and sold. Unlike my earlier analogy to football, arboriculture is not a premier league football club. Noone is going to come in and bank roll our industry to assist us in developing it further, so we have to sort it out ourselves. As the many posts relating to people seeing work that they deem 'rough' and carried out by people who really couldnt give two hoots, no industry will ever ensure that every company/operative is a true professional, you will only professionalise those that want to be. Hence why that bald chap has a job on cowboy builders. So shall i put you down for the first license treequip, you sound keen chap. lol

Haha.... I have climbed everest......Not meaning to boast like!!!! Not!!!!!!

Would it be fair to say that within certain areas of the the industry some companies are growing? How many arbtalkers that have strived to get bigger and better companies running are now no longer in arbtalk because they are to busy establishing businesses that are resilient and effective. There has been an increase over the last ten years of arb companies that are beyond the one man band and a couple of subbies phase. Commercial sectors are requiring professional companies to carry out work. This professionalisation of the industry may asssit in helping out all and sundry if adopted. But the people who were once one man bands are slowly getting bigger, opportunities for supervisory roles etc within them companies in 5,10,15 years will arise, if arboriculture continues to loose experience in the way it does in 15 years time, then clearly the industry and the companies operating within it will not have grown into something that is resilient and dynamic. Im fortunate to have my own company, but id be gutted if my associates drop out due to no opportunities in the future. Where do you see yourself in 25 years tree quip if you do not mind me asking?

The climb to the top with this issue is one that graeme mcmahon would wince at, but as an industry I think that the right time and scheme will be found, so its a case of try try try again.

Whats broke? For starters lets consider the age old issue of arborists being like professional footballers but without the wage. You play/climb, you get old you can not keep up,lose your job, you have no where to go and all you have is a bag of tickets, but how do you prove or show your true worth to a company, the industry, or other employers with opportunities for supervisory staff, its hard to, so you seek employment else where in another industry. Wow 30 years of on the tools skills gone out the window, never to be seen by an arborist again. Construction industry does not lose experience in that way, and id rather climb a tree at 50 than dig footings all day, so why does arboriculture not recognise and appreciate time served experience. Im sure that there are many other people reading this thread that could add to a list of what is wrong with arboriculture, if that were the case then maybe answers could be given to how and if the scheme could assist or rectify. Thanks for comments:thumbup1:

Andy, You mention you were involved in setting up a similiar scheme, would you mind telling me in your opinion why the scheme never got going. You have my email address please do send it privately if you wish. Many thanks

If you mean will somebody have to be employed to administer the scheme then yes admin staff will be required. If you mean will they be typing into a diamond encrusted keyboard then rest assured the timber cutter/arborist will be the benefactor, as the scheme is envisaged to benefit them and their industry, to professionalise it and establish recognition of the experience ,skills and quals and most importantly time served within the industry that they have. There really is no alterior motive within the R2 scheme. I wouldnt be involved in this if it was about making a quick buck, I love arboriculture, i know nothing else, and since starting my educational 'journey' 7 years ago it has been made aware to me by numerous individuals within a complete variety of sectors within the industry how the industry is not seen by other industrys as professional. Question to all, What in your opinion really makes a profession? what makes us professionals? do we tick the boxes of what professionalism really equates to in the real world? not a wikipedia search but the real world? If we can start to establish some form of professional standards framework for arboriculture then we are heading in the right direction. It is unfortuante that the software is not completly set up yet as I do believe that were you to 'trial' it and see how the scheme is intended to work then it may alter your opinion. There will be a pilot scheme run over the next 6 months by the way. Thanks for the feedback. Much appreciated. All the feedback is being fed back to the R2 team and is being considered daily.

Tony is the proprieter/director/dogs body etc for AM Lane as listed at the bottom of the invitation letter on the OP. It is intended that the scheme will fund itself. As with most things if it isnt sustainable it will not survive.

I would imagine that each case would be different but the loss of skills and amount of people commenting about hiring people who claim to be everything but are not needs addressing, if experience and skills could be assessed it may assist. Thanks for the comments by the way

Andy, Bearing in mind that it is the 'worn out climbers' that are often the ones that teach the people, that take their jobs in the long run, how to do the job when we are learning, i feel that as an industry we have duty to re-adddress the issue of people dropping out the industry at this valuable time of their career, and try and sustain their employment in arboriculture. We need to start somewhere i guess.

So if the scheme can recognise and quantify the value of the years served it may enable them, through industry adoption of the scheme, to be able to go to employers that offer supervisory roles and say i am the man for the job.

Jonny, It is intended that the scheme will recognise all of the above, but; and possibly more importantly, also quantify and recognise experience within the industry.

I was very sceptical and analytical of the scheme when i first got asked to give an opinion, but at the last meeting i was shown the software that is being used to run the scheme and and how it is used and it has changed my mind.

Minotaur, Regards to benefiting me the scheme will not be of benefit in the way I think you mean, I run a small two man company, I care very much about this industry and when i hear other industries developing professional standards framework and gaining the professional recognition for it it makes me want to try and help professionalise it. When i say other industry i refer to schemes set up by the pig and also the poultry industry. If those industries can professionalise then im sure arboriculture can.

Minotaur, Regarding bringing in money to the people on the committee, that is certainly not the case. Any funds raised will be directed back into the system to enable enhancements, cover marketing initiatives and meeting costs and assist in keeping the system up to date.

Treequip The committee consists of reps from the ISA,AA,Landex (college sector) Bartletts, Glendale, Tony lane, Lantra and myself as an independant contractor.

Pete, Do you think that if people who have always been on the tools and have no educational qualifications but have a huge amount of valuable industry experience that was recognised, were able to have this experienced somehow quantified, then maybe they could find themselves going for supervisory roles within larger organisations where at the moment they may struggle to get the interview. It wont be the company solely that has to do the auditing, there will be an impetus for the individual to use the system to progress through there careeer with clearer pathways identified and acknowledgment of their particular experiences along the way.

The experience aspect will be looked at by the use of recorded occasions when particular jobs that are undertaken are logged and used to recognise the experience and the professionalism that the task was carried out in. Most professional arborists know when a job has been done well, and would say that a job had been carried out professionally. It is envisaged that the register will be reviewed by a group of people from as many sectors of arboriculture as possible, this group will develop as the scheme does, and industry adoption will highlight the direction the scheme moves in, with the final outcome being that the scheme continually assists in the industrys development and professionalisation