Quickthorn

As far as I know, Customs & Excise have always had the power to simply enter your home. They were the only branch of government that could do that..even the police need a warrant before bursting in (although recent terror legislation may have changed that). According to some areas of the press: before they were merged with the Inland Revenue, C&E could be very heavy handed when investigating VAT, and were happy to carry out extra-judicial punishment of businesses they thought might be defrauding the system. One example which hit the press was that of a dry cleaning business, who they suspected of under reporting income to avoid some of their VAT. They worked out what they thought the business owed them (a huge figure) and sent them the bill. Knowing that the business would not be able to pay, they then applied for a winding up order on the basis that the business was bankrupt..caused by the bill they had received from C&E! Basically, they shut this place down without the owners ever having the chance to defend themselves in court, because no criminal charges were ever brought. Because of tricks like this, and heavy handed enforcement at ports on holidaymakers returning with duty free, it was thought that C&E had got a little bit out of control, and hence the merger with the Revenue, to calm them down a bit. Unfortunately, it looks like the C&E approach might have spread to the Revenue, rather than the other way around.

looks like they've updated the guidance..it was GV262. Now it's the link marked drivers hours etc The forestry exemption is 100 km of base, if you think you do forestry. The other one is: "Vehicles or combinations of vehicles with a maximum permissible mass not exceeding 7.5 tonnes that are used: • by universal service providers ...; or • for carrying materials, equipment or machinery for the driver’s use in the course of his work. These vehicles shall be used only within a 50 km radius of the base of the undertaking and on the condition that driving the vehicle does not constitute the driver’s main activity. The only universal service provider in the UK at the time of publication (September 2007) is the Royal Mail. Universal service provider vehicles must have a tachograph fitted. This would apply to tradesmen such as electricians or builders carrying tools or materials for their own use." I went through this a few years ago. I rang the local office, and someone told me - a little too quickly, I thought - that, yes, I would need a tacho. A local fitter wanted £700 for fitting one to my Landrover, all for the sake of a dozen journeys per year. Luckily, the forestry exemption went up from 50 km to 100 km.

I didn't tell the boss, but yea, I refused to hold and cut, and have never done since. Made it difficult there, because it slowed things down compared to everyone else, who were happy to cut and hold..I'd be cutting hinges or step cuts, or using a hand saw, and the boss would be below me bellowing at me to start the saw and get on with it, so I ended up being put on the chipper for most jobs. I'd get a climb only once every few months, and that was only if there was nobody else to do it.

On axe men, why do they cut the stump so high? Last night, I saw one cut at about 2-3' high, then he trimmed the stump down to about 6", leaving it to roll down the hill! Someone told me it's a hangover from the old days, when they were only paid for timber above the root flare..hence the need for spring boards etc. Is that right?

Very minor, but yes, in a tree, with a top handled saw, cutting and holding in an effort to work as fast as my colleagues, and keep the boss happy.

The front loader mounted ones are useful, especially on rough ground or if there's a ditch in the way.

Speaking of which.. I wrote a long letter to the EA in response to their consultation. I got an answer which included a link to an EA position statement on regulation of wood. They make the distinction between virgin and non-virgin timbers: "Virgin timber is timber from: • whole trees and the woody parts of trees including branches and bark derived from forestry works, woodland management, tree surgery and other similar operations (it does not include clippings or trimmings that consist primarily of foliage2); • virgin wood processing (e.g. wood offcuts, shavings or sawdust from sawmills) or timber product manufacture dealing in virgin timber. Virgin timbers are not waste and are not subject to waste regulatory controls provided they are certain to be used for purposes to which virgin wood is commonly put. These include use as: • woodchip in gardens or on pathways; • a raw material for composting; • animal bedding; • fuel in an appliance; • a raw material for the production of wood-based products or in paper production. But if virgin timber is mixed with waste timber or any other waste, the mixed load is classed as waste." I think this has been posted on this site before, years ago, but I couldn't find it anywhere. If "virgin timber" is not waste, then waste carriers' licencing, environmental permitting and exemptions do not apply, subject to the quote above. I wish their advice line had said that in the first place !!. The only thing that might be needed is an EP exemption for burning. I might print this off and have a copy in the cab of the truck, just in case I do get stopped by anyone.

A united front would be better than lots of individuals. Are any of you in any arb trade associations? what are they doing to stick up for you? The only things I'm in are forestry related, and tree waste isn't such a problem.

Agree. the one I was using kept kicking the chain off the sprockets.

It's for every site you chip on, rather than where you take it. That's only what they've told me. It's a bit of a lucky dip as to what you get told when you get advice on this from the EA. Like I said before, they're still consulting on changes to it all. At the end of the consultation paper, they say that they're keen on hearing from "microbusinesses", so now's the chance to find out what they're planning and have your say.

I've used one, although the last time it was one that should have been on the scrap heap. The principle is simple, but the devil's in the detail. This particular one had a weight (50kg I think) which slit up and down an upright, pulled up by a chain, which went up, over a sprocket on the top of the upright, and over another sprocket on the end of the arm, finally bolted to the upright. A single acting ram pushed the arm away from the upright, which pulled the weight up by the chain. The upright angle was adjustable in one way, and the whole thing could adjust on the top link at 90 degrees to that. The height was adjusted by feet held in with pins through holes. There should also have been a guide for the post a few feet high, but this was missing. The whole thing was fabricated out of 4" box section, I think. Very crude, adjusting took a lot of time, and needed doing for every post, as the ground was rough, and it was hard to get the tractor in the right place. All the brackets holding it together were welded, and one of those went at the weld when we were using it. Turns out that weld had virtually zero penetration, god knows how it had lasted as long as it did, but if the other bracket had also gone the whole upright could have come crashing down. It might be a better idea to use high tensile bolts on critical parts, rather than welds, because these things shake around 1 hell of a lot. Have you thought of hiring one out for the job, then taking pictures and measuring it for your version?

That's what they seem to be saying. If you take it away, I'd imagine you'd exempt your yard; if not, you need an exemption for every site. At the moment, it's as easy as a phone call. What I'm more concerned about is the proposed changes in exemptions, due to come in next year. I'm surprised that nobody on here has commented. As I understand it... In future, they propose that you will need to pay a fee for every exemption site you register for a 3 year period. The proposal is £50. You will be able to register more than one exemption for the one fee, but if they extend current exemption arrangements, it will be for the site on which you're treating, using storing and/or disposing of waste. If you work on lots of sites and chip or burn the waste there, that's a registration for each site. If you bring stuff back to your yard (even if you chip it at a customer's place), one registration might cover you, and the exemptions you'd need would be for chipping, storage or any other use or disposal. The relevant storage one might be of concern, as you are limited to 100 tons of wood, and it can only stay there for 12 months or less. I would have thought that might concern anyone running a firewood business who converts arb waste to seasoned firewood in any quantity. If you fall outside of the conditions of an exemption - eg you store more at your yard and/or for longer than above- you would have to apply for an environmental permit. I don't know the full details of this, but it involves an extensive environmental risk assessment, proof of technical competence to run the site, and a fee of at least £several hundred. They won't even look at an application that doesn't come with full proof you have planning permission to operate where you are. They're consulting, until 23rd October, so there's still time to have a say. link

On the phone to sheffield now, they've told me they I do need a para 21 exemption for chipping and leaving on site (as mulch etc). Perhaps it depends on what you do with it after it's chipped. Also, I need to register exemption for every site. Not a problem now, but if their proposals for change go ahead (see my previous posts), each exemption will cost £50 for 3 years. £50 per site I work on = not good.

£10 a day extra? How much does 5 l of Aspen cost?

Ed, When you spoke to the EA, did you discuss para 21 exemption for chipping brash on the site of production, using chips as mulch or just scattering to get rid? Do you need para 21 exemption for that? Do you need a separate exemption for every site you work on, or will one exemption for chipping cover all of your firm's chipping? It's something I want to ask them at my end, tomorrow, but I've found EA inconsistent between offices in the past. As far as waste goes, click on "SEPA guidance: is it waste?" - on this pageif you want to know how the EA work it out. It's a pdf file, and nails every argument I've heard for tree surgery not being waste.

Apart from this one, am I right in thinking that all the other saws that have blown up on this thread are Stihls..even with pukka oil.?

As I posted before, the exemptions are due to change from October 2009, with consultation closing on 23rd October 2008. consultation on revised waste exemptions from environmental permitting Of the waste types relevant to tree work, it seems that a lot of situations currently "low risk" and not controlled will be elevated to exemption status, with limits. eg Storage/sale of wood chip/bark now exempt and limited to 100 tons and 12 months Use of chip in gardens/open spaces now exempt and limited to 500 tons, whatever they mean by that Storage of wood pending recovery now exempt and limited to 100 tons and 12 months. These were previously low risk activities that you could do without having to notify anyone. They now propose that you will have to apply and pay for 3 year exemptions for all of these, and work within the limits. Of the existing exemptions, anyone who composts or uses composting sites may well be affected. Exemption para 12 allowed for composting 1000 tons of material. This limit has been dropped to 40 tons if the waste is produced on site, 25 tons if material is brought in/out. Above that, you'd need an environmental permit. Chipping will be regarded as a treatment of waste, and will require exemption, but I'm not sure if they really understand why we chip stuff. From the consultation document.. "3.3.13 There are some examples where it is considered that waste operations carried out at the place of production are indeed waste management operations under the WFD and exemptions have been provided for these. In this situation, the treatment results in a change to the waste that means the treated waste will have a different effect on the environment or human health than the original waste. One example of this is the crushing of waste discharge lamps. [...] Another example is the chipping of plant tissue waste. The chipping operation is usually done to assist in its subsequent use or treatment e.g. mulch or composting rather than to facilitate onward transport." For other processes where they crush, compact or change stuff to help with transport, they're not regarded as waste management operations and so don't come under all of this..yet I'm sure most people buy a chipper mainly to get more stuff onto their trucks ie help with transport. Anyway, we've got til 23rd October to have a say. I notice they have included the Arb Association as consultees..I'd be interested to know how they've responded.

Ignorance is no defence in law. This is the thing with the fixed penalty notice, and why they are becoming more common. Whoever stops you has the power to criminalise you there and then, at the stroke of a pen, and it's a lot cheaper and quicker for them than bringing cases to the courts.

Try here

I'd heard of that, but have never met anyone who has applied for it. Anyway, they are changing the exemptions, and are consulting on this now. Consultation closes on 23rd October 2008. revised waste exemptions from environmental permitting Exemptions in our case would be by premises rather than site. They use the example of a vet who makes many visits to remote locations, bringing waste back to the surgery..the surgery would be where the exemption would be registered, not the many sites where the waste came from. So, for us, we would register an exemption for our yards. For chipping, Para 21 replaced, similar conditions, but only 500 tons/week rather than 1000. Exemptions would last for 3 years and, guess what, exemptions will be chargeable..£50 per 3 years to start off with. All of this will be harder to ignore if they are also move to fixed penalty notices. At the moment, I'd imagine yards unlucky enough to attract their attention might get a warning to comply. Once this lot takes effect, it will be a penalty as well. I'm assuming the AA has got in there and stuck up for the industry during these consultations..

This is how I understand it, too. Waste carriers licence needed, regardless of what anyone thinks, its what they think that matters. And we should be applying for exemptions every time we chip or burn brash. The waste carriers stuff will be changing. Changes to waste Carrier Legislation The 2nd stage consultation has just closed, and proposals, due to be implemented in April 2009, are in the pdfs on this page. Waste carrier licencing will be a 2 tier system. The upper tier will be everyone who needs to licence now, licences to cost £45 / year, renewable annually. The lower tier is everyone else who were previously exempt. That's a £30 one off fee. We'd be in the 2nd tier. They've changed the wording slightly to make it pretty clear that any one of us that regularly carries waste will need to be licenced. They are thinking of bringing in a disc that must be displayed, and they're hoping to be able to use fixed penalty notices to punish anyone who does not comply with anything (at the moment, they need to drag offenders to the courts, which is costly, and so prosecutions are low. I suppose they want to empower a swarm of inspectors etc. with the ability to issue £300 tickets for anyone in breach, which would have the effect of upping prosecution rates). Powers to seize vehicles are to be increased, too. Interestingly, in one part of the document, they were also talking about issuing fixed penalties to householders who did not carry out their duty of care in making sure that their contractors are allowed to carry waste..but feel that this could alienate the public if such penalties were issued (ie. sounds like they think it's a good idea, but don't have the backbone to do it)

Can anyone recommend a suitable tacho for tuning saws? I don't fiddle with the settings that much, and they seem to run ok, but it might be worth a check. I wouldn't trust most of the dealers i go to with anything more than a lawnmower, so I'd rather do it myself properly.

They described the bloke with the claw as a "logging tycoon"..two words you don't often see next to each other in the same sentence. If they did it the way it was shown, I thought setting the skyline with the helicopter the way they did it was madness. Surely they would have thought that getting the cable caught up was likely to happen in a forest, and had some sort of release that they could work from the cockpit. (perhaps they did, and the telly director just didn't know, or didn't say to make it look more dramatic) Mind you, I know contractors who operate that way over here..they get the work with the lowest price, then carry on like that to try and actually make money on the job. They get away with it because conditions here are pretty easy compared to the states, and they get their work on estates where the landowners haven't got a clue.

I knew one old boy who headed down south, along with loads of others, to cash in on the clean up..only, so much timber hit the market at once that the bottom fell out of it. He told me he made just about enough to pay for his Matador, and that was it.

Out of interest, are these volumes the actual volume of solid wood the customer would get, or does this include the air between the wood?