UK Forestry in serious trouble?

[Timber Man]

It has been cyclical, but the same could be said about other industries. Things have changed a lot with mechanisation, but you cannot stop that.

In the mid to late seventies vast areas of land were being bought up for a few quid an acre.There was 100% write off against tax in planting and establishment grants. Business people, pension funds, pop stars, footballers all jumped in . it was a very attractive way of them avoiding tax. Most of that timber has had little to no management in the meantime. In times gone by it would have been thinned in varying stages releasing 20-30% of the stand onto the market, to leave a final crop of mature timber.

During those 40 years mills have moved away from bandsaws and most of them work on a 45-50 cm maximum butt diameter. In the days of bandsaws it was bigger the better, and a final stand of timber would just be mature trees.

A lot of the timber that was planted under those grant schemes has now reached harvesting size to meet the mills criteria, as soon as demand for homegrown increases people sell,as I said you can only sell it once.In a way it puts a false bottom in the market,..you only have to look at the prices standing fuelwood has been making in recent years to realise it wasn't sustainable.

Obviously apart from the private landowner the FC bring more timber to market under these circumstances,which increases the demand on harvesting capacity , more machines are bought to meet demand and so on.

It takes very little to start to reverse things.

[Timber Man]

Big forestry companies rather see the timber stand whilst the markets flat. British timber is dependant on the global price. And it's dirt cheap. The problem for the harvester lads and lasses is the finance monthly fee and keeping the machine new enough to be cost effective. No good when the big mills have the handbrake on. I suspect the biomass market has put a bottom in the price for chip, but the lack of gov subsidy has slowed the market

 

I think its more a case of landowners would rather see it stand when the market is flat, why not its still growing unless they need the cash?

Management/marketing companies make their money out of doing just that,their margins per tonne vary very little be the price be up or down,they just make higher profits by having a greater tonnage turnover when demand is there.The increased value in timber goes to the landowner, not forgetting the land agents percentage.

[justin cider]

Who do you mean by forest management?

 

Some of the biggest names in forestry management have an unholy alliance and are subsidiary companies of the end users of the timber. Their fees are attached to every part of the operations from woodland and roadside surveys, obtaining grants, extraction, planting and maintenance. In most cases there is nothing left in the kitty for the woodland owner other than its managed for them and it wipes its own nose financially.

[Timber Man]

Some of the biggest names in forestry management have an unholy alliance and are subsidiary companies of the end users of the timber. Their fees are attached to every part of the operations from woodland and roadside surveys, obtaining grants, extraction, planting and maintenance. In most cases there is nothing left in the kitty for the woodland owner other than its managed for them and it wipes its own nose financially.

 

Well one in particular did,but some of that's changing now.The landowner has a choice whether they use these companies or not. A lot of land agents are the same on management fees, and as a lot of them work on a percentage of sales on top of, have increased their interest in forestry operations.

Its a question of scale in most cases.

[Timber Man]

A lot of the timber left to harvest is now in bloody awkward places. Where unless your a proud owner of a Tigercat with massive climbing cleets on your tracks you aren't machine cutting it. So you're left with winching it or skylining it. Extraction methods still practiced but where it was once a mainstay it's now rather specialist. This of course then leads you to having to find someone with the skills to cut for this extraction method. Your no doubt having to then secondary extract it so it's just too expensive to harvest.

 

So we then get to the stage where we're sub £3 on mechanical harvesting standing 'easy' timber. Then this sits at roadside drying out because for some reason we sell by weight rather than through the head.

 

Why do you suggest it would be too expensive to harvest? people are doing it all year round.

I don't really see how timber could be sold on head measure? There is an argument there for contractors to be paid on head measure, but then again with some species they may be worse off.

[Logrover]

Forestry has always been marginal on profit, breaking even in the early thinning stages so less thinning nowadays leaving poorer timber thats worth less blah blah etc. it seems very regional, some areas in scotland are flat out while other areas are flat. I think that contractors are really struggling due to foreign imports and large companies like jenkinsons are thriving on the low prices both at home and abroad but thses profits never go back down the chain to the guys on the ground. Its a real shame.

Unfortunately i have just left forestry and now work for a local hydraulics firm due to both having a baby on the way and cannot stay away etc but also that the forestry wages would be a struggle to survive on with kids.

British forestry will become the realm of the part timer, young free single people and the retired if we are not careful!!

[chrisholmes19858]

can see south east being in trouble in the future, demand already outstripping quality standing timber and not planting enough softwood,lots of small squirrel damaged,unmanaged hardwood and over-stood chestnut chipwood!

[TimberCutterDartmoor]

can see south east being in trouble in the future, demand already outstripping quality standing timber and not planting enough softwood,lots of small squirrel damaged,unmanaged hardwood and over-stood chestnut chipwood!

 

Exactly that; fell good conifer, restock with squirrel food.

[Mark Bolam]

Spot on Chris.

Loads of overstood, unmanaged coppice in Kent.

[Timber Man]

In a lot of ways the south east is still recovering from the 87 blow, in timber growing terms its not that long ago . In comparison to some parts of the country there isn't a massive local milling capacity,a lot of the timber goes north.

The chestnut coppice market changed drastically upon the closure of the Sevenoaks pulp mill. Hundreds of people made a living from chestnut stands , better quality into fencing, rest into pulp.

Another problem facing coppice is winter cutting , then waiting for dry ground in the spring to extract,not many could afford to work that way.

Pheasants have a lot higher value to a lot of south east landowners than a few hundred tonnes of timber.