Our own worst enemy?

[JaySmith]

Joe public take no notice of signage anyway .....

 

 

That's true but if unfortunately someone was hurt you would have done everything reasonably practicable to protect the public. We had a rocket scientist break through the barrier tape the other day with his dog because we had blocked his usual route!

[Thesnarlingbadger]

This is something I was thinking about the other day.

People often rush, see the tree and get climbing as opposed to get the signs and cones out properly and set up site before even putting on a harness. I've worked with lads who think it's alright not to bother with any of that and think it's alright to be chipping up on a main road without a hard hat on. Winds me up, if there is an accident they don't have a leg to stand on.

Another way of looking at it I suppose is that if you and your company do everything by the book and look the part Joe public will notice your not a bunch of Cowboys and you'll be the one that will get the call when work needs doing.

[Rhystree]

I agree, in our industry very few people in my area bother putting guys through the street works ticket etc. A lot of them think ignorance is bliss when it comes to traffic and pedestrian control and a tree cutting sign put out in the road means they can stop traffic and walk around in the road. On the other hand doing things by the book can be restricting when it comes to a roadside job. Here's a few pics of our site this week it took 5 guys around 30/40 minutes to set up. We used around 40 pedestrian barriers which didn't gone us a great amount of working space. As the boss set up and take down time greatly eats into our tree working day. However if something happened I feel we ticked all of the boxes for TM to have minimal come back to me!

[easy-lift guy]

I regularly read comments on here with complaints about how restrictive and difficult red tape makes our lives but sometimes I think we can be our own worst enemy by not thinking what we are doing, the consequences of our actions and how the public view us.

 

I witnessed an incident one afternoon this week which has left me in a position where I don't know how to act.

 

A tree truck, tidy chip box and well signwritten, complete with chipper set up on the pavement -blocking it. Four cones a metre into the road. The tree being dismantled was the other side of a 2m mesh fence and as I passed one stem had been felled over the fence, across the pavement, between the cones and still a metre into the road. A mother with a pushchair attempting to pass was forced almost three metres into the road to do so.

 

Does the blame lie with the lads on site, carrying on without proper traffic management, are they expected to work like that anyway. From what I witnessed there was no concern about this pedestrian the groundsman was to busy chipping and I don't think he even noticed her.

 

I thought that I'd ring the company to make them aware of what was going on, but then thought the owner might actually be on site, in the tree and wouldn't take too kindly to the call. I'm probably going to end up doing nothing, but it's situations like this that encourage the powers-to-be to impose more training, restrictions and costs to all businesses - so is does affect us all.

 

We all, I suspect, cut an odd corner here and there, but this was pretty blatant - with total disregard for pedestrians by blocking the pavement and no restrictions on the public entering the working area. Your thoughts gentleman please.

 

Gary, Government regulation aside how difficult would it have been for "the mother with a pushchair attempting to pass was forced almost three metres into the road to do so" to have deviated her normal walk and let the work crew get on with their job?. Seriously:sneaky2: Pedestrians may very well have the right of way in the UK and a bit of common sense and consideration for the working crew to conduct their work in a safe and sound manor should prevail. You have a no win situation on your hands if the pedestrians have absolute rule over work crews. Here stateside some may make a fuss, however most others would just change their routine and let the working crew get along with their work.

easy-lift guy

[Gary Prentice]

Just sounds like bad planning or a Friday afternoon job. Yes the responsibility lies with the guys on site but also with the manager of the company who has the ultimate responsibility if he sent them out to do the job in that way.

 

Yes it does reflect badly upon us all. In an ideal world they would have a support truck with about 50 pedestrian barriers and signs to set up a safe passage around the work zone but in reality who does that? It was something we raised when we did our chapter 8 course as it is ok closing the path but you need to have a designated safe passage around the work zone but in reality we can't do that. However more cones, signs and barrier tape may have helped to make the work zone safer and more professional looking. Was it a council job?

 

No, a private contractor.

[JaySmith]

No, a private contractor.

 

 

Sorry what I meant was is it an ARB company working on behalf of the council? The reason I ask that is the rates that the contractors get from the councils tends to be so bad they are often forced into cutting corners in order to achieve daily targets... but that's a whole different story isn't it??!!

[JaySmith]

I agree, in our industry very few people in my area bother putting guys through the street works ticket etc. A lot of them think ignorance is bliss when it comes to traffic and pedestrian control and a tree cutting sign put out in the road means they can stop traffic and walk around in the road. On the other hand doing things by the book can be restricting when it comes to a roadside job. Here's a few pics of our site this week it took 5 guys around 30/40 minutes to set up. We used around 40 pedestrian barriers which didn't gone us a great amount of working space. As the boss set up and take down time greatly eats into our tree working day. However if something happened I feel we ticked all of the boxes for TM to have minimal come back to me! [ATTACH]199420[/ATTACH][ATTACH]199421[/ATTACH][ATTACH]199422[/ATTACH][ATTACH]199423[/ATTACH][ATTACH]199424[/ATTACH]

 

 

 

Quality set up there Rhys, which is an example of how to do it, unfortunately the reality is we don't often get the time or budget to do what you have done there.

[Gary Prentice]

Gary, Government regulation aside how difficult would it have been for "the mother with a pushchair attempting to pass was forced almost three metres into the road to do so" to have deviated her normal walk and let the work crew get on with their job?. Seriously:sneaky2: Pedestrians may very well have the right of way in the UK and a bit of common sense and consideration for the working crew to conduct their work in a safe and sound manor should prevail. You have a no win situation on your hands if the pedestrians have absolute rule over work crews. Here stateside some may make a fuss, however most others would just change their routine and let the working crew get along with their work.

easy-lift guy

 

The options should had was to cross a busy road, with no pedestrian refuge in the center or walk the way she dis. The correct traffic management would have included a barriered walkway post the works, as in the pics someone posted above.

 

The working crew had no consideration for anyone, pedestrians or drivers, with the tree stem well into the road forcing cars to drive around it and into the lane of oncoming traffic. We all want to get on with our work, but I personally wouldn't wish to explain to someones husband, parent or whatever why I was partly to blame for there death or injury - let alone a prosecuting barrister.

[Gary Prentice]

Sorry what I meant was is it an ARB company working on behalf of the council? The reason I ask that is the rates that the contractors get from the councils tends to be so bad they are often forced into cutting corners in order to achieve daily targets... but that's a whole different story isn't it??!!

 

They were working at a school, which locally means direct for the school as they administer their own budgets. So I'd guess no, they weren't working indirectly for the council.

[Gary Prentice]

Quality set up there Rhys, which is an example of how to do it, unfortunately the reality is we don't often get the time or budget to do what you have done there.

 

Is this because we lose jobs to the firms that cut corners, take chances and risks and so forth to be cheap? It starts to sound like a vicious circle.