New Hitches VS old Prussicks

[telhol]

Icicle hitch best gripping hitch around and releases easier than any thing i used an i tested every hitch in the treeclimber c. and on the net. VT is a fussy hitch it has to be spot on or it will creep when you need to wrap a hitch quickly go for the icicle you will love its compact size and great gripping power use a MP for slackin.

[TreeSpyder]

i like a Schwab for backup over Kong; because both legs feed out 1 side.

 

Otherwise; i go with a modified VT. i give 4 turn coil; then 2 braids; then 2 turns trapped by a Sailor Gripping Hitch (kinda close to Icicle) type strategy. Only that modified to a muenter; rather than a half hitch around those last 2 turns. i make the contraption in 3/8" flat Tenex(twin braid).

 

Like the Icicle and Sailor Gripping; it gives easier re-lease and better self tending than Knut and TK IMLHO. i think 'my way' gives better self tending and release even. But; ye must have right length cord to suit/tuned. Too long lets more turns of coil pull out to braids. We want a clean classic 4 turns in Coil mechanics. ie Defining 1 turn as turn, 2 as round turn, 3 as double round turn and 4 as coil. These are not just increases in turns mechanically; like the eye says! More of a geometric/ not additive increase in controlling friction force. As we have the additive distance; but also (multiplied by) the real key concept of folding the force(s) back in on itself; in what i think is an elusive (to the eye so counter-intuitive) "Mayhem Effect".

 

In these things i define knotting forces as a microcosm of rigging forces; so look to the maginified view of rigging forces to see the knotting forces better. If no friction on straight parts of rig(and ignoring elasticity); the straight parts give no change/can be dropped out of the equation; to leave the bends, turns and frictions of a compact rig/ knot as the base/ distilled formulaes/mechanics.

 

OK, i'm done, safe to come out now!

[bill]

blakes with a 13mm split tail on 13mm climbing line. going to try a vt tomorrow, dont like the sound of it creeping if not set right tho.

[Steve Bullman]

ive never had a v't creep unless its a 3-1....i gave up using that apart from on my lanyard...good fun though.

telhol, if you didnt have a v.t releasing better than any other hitch its because you didnt spend enough time tuning it....its a difficult hitch to perfect but well worth the time and effort

[DrewB]

xt hitch on blaze i cannot fault. vt on 13mm climbing line. i find its good to bust out the old blakes every so often, if only to remind myself how good the newer hitches are!

note to lockjack users-watch that the wooden ball doesnt get caught in crabiner, this can hold the 'jack open and lead to a quick descent

[Marc]

note to lockjack users-watch that the wooden ball doesnt get caught in crabiner, this can hold the 'jack open and lead to a quick descent

 

was this a personal experience Drew, sounds fun.

 

I've climbied with most knots, the VT though is so damn simple and obvious, it has no bridge so basically if set right will never bind tight, I always think of a VT gripping liking a finger trap.

Its so easy to break and allows for really smooth controlled decents.

 

Beeb climbing on a sickeningly small set-up recently, from the top wrap down to the biner is no more than the width of my palm, it grips very reliably and self tends easily. Only problem is it technically only has 2 wraps and 2 braids!

[TreeSpyder]

i think most friction hitches of new desent are of 2 stages. The coil on top for a 'sure' stop; and a preceding strategy to make it failsafe and buffer loading to the coil; to keep the coil response in it's more friendly range/powerband.

 

i see what ya mean about the finger trap of the VT (braids?); but i think that is just stage 1 of the mechanics. In most other hitches stage 1 here is some sort of half hitch to choke the host line. Then, after stage 1, the remaining force needed for support is passed on to stage 2- the coil(generally 4 uninterrupted turns).

 

Mind you for descent; this should be in DdRT, not SRT. In DdRT the hitch is only half loaded, but also in DdRT; the loading can kinda switch over to the static/terminated leg of support; as the dynamic/adjusting leg stretches; thereby freeing up the force on the hitch enough to let it slide.

 

SRT, doesn't have this alternative leg of support; so hitch can't unload and still support; so can't slide as smoothly and safely.

[Jonny69]

blakes with a 13mm split tail on 13mm climbing line. going to try a vt tomorrow, dont like the sound of it creeping if not set right tho.

 

Generally they will not "Creep", like a prussik or Blakes may.

 

VT's either hold (as it should be) or don't. If they dont then you will need to re-dress the knot. A problem I have with mine (cause I like them set up very free) is that they can be a bit hit and miss with gripping properly. Trouble is everyone time I set up one that is consistent it feels crap and does not self tend as well as I want it too.

[telhol]

Well i got a simple job tommoro so im giving the VT a weeks trial again i done 4 wraps 4 braids been testing it the week end seems ok but does not grip every time so im constantly tuning it. I have to say the icicle is really good when you high up you need to trust your hitch the icicle has never failed me not slipped once even in rain. I think my problem with the VT is the new oceanp its hard rope but after some use its getting more supple.

[Marc]

I liked the look of your other set-up in the your gear thread Telhol, why don't you use that, it would probably work better.

 

Wth the VT and stiff cord I found after a while the cord gets a memory and the wraps eventually grip better, sometimes.

 

The problem is with the sewn eye cord you have is you cannot adjust the length.