anyone ever write a rebuttal to kiln drying

[arboriculturist]

There is absolutely no difference between an air dried 20% m/c log and a Kiln dried 20% log.

 

I think the issue is that in the eyes of the ignorant consumer there is a big difference because they are not comparing like with like.

 

So many ""air dried seasoned logs" sold are actually green, that when the consumer tries kiln dried they notice a big difference and then swear by it.

 

Why are so many logs sold green ? I guess it because it takes a lot of space, cash and time to dry logs by air as so the temptation is obvious. A kiln solves these issues.

 

The real issue here is surely not kiln drying or no kiln drying it is how to stop people being conned by green logs. I don't have the answer for this....

 

Some people never lose interest in the 'drying' debate - good to see you back.

 

There can be a difference in 'force' dried firewood and 'naturally' dried firewood, however using the general UK method of 'force' drying firewood - there is no appreciable difference.

 

'Like for like' - I'm always using that phrase to the end user. Through media I am slowly educating the public in my region.

 

We love others selling 'green' timber - not great for the consumer, but for us it is great

 

Ooh - how many years has the current phase of Bio-mass RHI payments left to run ? 20 years soon passes.

[Windy Trick]

I love firewood, yes it's a bit sad, and everything associated with producing it. Primarily though I am a retailer first and producer second. I retail wood. Any retailer gives the customer what he wants. We produce air dried firewood and import kiln dried as we don't have a kiln. Some customers love our air dried product. Most, however, only want to talk about kiln dried hardwood (I actually quite like softwood firewood too, but the customer doesn't want to hear it, even though it is extremely cheap). So I give them what they want and bite my tongue whilst jingling the coins in my pocket.

[ash_smith123]

You would have to mostly thank companies like certainly wood for the "kiln dried" popularity over the last 10/15 years. Its grown from them and It's completely genius! They had a product, speeded up the process, marketed it as a better product and sold it for more money. Like you said there is no difference in the wood at all but it's how you market it. A lot of people (like myself) have jumped on the bandwagon and are riding the wave. My sales this winter are pretty much split 50/50 kiln dried/seasoned. Even kiln dried softwood is selling well!!

I can only imagine you will be shocked by this but I actually kiln dry my "seasoned firewood". It just comes out at an average of 25% moisture (around 50 hours) where the kiln dried is 15% and is in there for (around 80 hours)

I just wouldn't be able to keep up! I advertise the wood at the 2 different moisture contents and the customer can choose.

Last September I sold about 50 cubic metres, we did 220 cubic metres this septemver. October is looking like it's going to be bigger again pushing 300 cube.

Both kilns are running flatout and we still can't keep up! Another one will be going in soon I think [emoji12]

[arboriculturist]

I love firewood, yes it's a bit sad, and everything associated with producing it. Primarily though I am a retailer first and producer second. I retail wood. Any retailer gives the customer what he wants. We produce air dried firewood and import kiln dried as we don't have a kiln. Some customers love our air dried product. Most, however, only want to talk about kiln dried hardwood (I actually quite like softwood firewood too, but the customer doesn't want to hear it, even though it is extremely cheap). So I give them what they want and bite my tongue whilst jingling the coins in my pocket.

 

We all need to work together to promote a softwood / hardwood mix. 100% Hardwood is just not sustainable - the tree species just won't produce the volumes demand requires.

 

The RHI on domestic and commercial Bio-mass installations is making the whole matter worse - as has been said, they are all 'riding the wave'.

 

'Boom and bust' comes to mind, with the profiteers long gone others will be left to think up possible solutions.

 

The average person has no interest in this of course.

[Logsnstuff]

You would have to mostly thank companies like certainly wood for the "kiln dried" popularity over the last 10/15 years. Its grown from them and It's completely genius! They had a product, speeded up the process, marketed it as a better product and sold it for more money. Like you said there is no difference in the wood at all but it's how you market it. A lot of people (like myself) have jumped on the bandwagon and are riding the wave. My sales this winter are pretty much split 50/50 kiln dried/seasoned. Even kiln dried softwood is selling well!!

I can only imagine you will be shocked by this but I actually kiln dry my "seasoned firewood". It just comes out at an average of 25% moisture (around 50 hours) where the kiln dried is 15% and is in there for (around 80 hours)

I just wouldn't be able to keep up! I advertise the wood at the 2 different moisture contents and the customer can choose.

Last September I sold about 50 cubic metres, we did 220 cubic metres this septemver. October is looking like it's going to be bigger again pushing 300 cube.

Both kilns are running flatout and we still can't keep up! Another one will be going in soon I think [emoji12]

 

so your perpetrating the confusion for the public as my air dried measures from 10% upwards your simply doing 2 levels of kiln dried.

 

The thread kind of went off on the usual tangent as to what's profitable for the producer and why they should take rhi payments, what I was trying to get at is how to educate the public that a properly air dried log is not the inferior product that some merchants are trying to imply, a few months back someone talked about putting together a flyer to show why air dried is superior due to the reduced environmental costs and should at the end have the same Mc more or less.

[arboriculturist]

so your perpetrating the confusion for the public as my air dried measures from 10% upwards your simply doing 2 levels of kiln dried.

 

The thread kind of went off on the usual tangent as to what's profitable for the producer and why they should take rhi payments, what I was trying to get at is how to educate the public that a properly air dried log is not the inferior product that some merchants are trying to imply, a few months back someone talked about putting together a flyer to show why air dried is superior due to the reduced environmental costs and should at the end have the same Mc more or less.

 

If you don't mind Logsnstuff (sorry - don't know your name) i'll use that thought to educate the public on the merits of 'naturally dried wood'.

 

This will be controversial for some, but I am working towards an improved place to live in for my children.

[name_mike]

Unless Its kiln dried to lower than atmospheric humidity & it comes out of the kiln that day its no different to properly seasoned wood. Wood will absorb moisture to become ambient with the atmosphere.

 

I dry my wood in an open ended polly tunnel then store it indoors for about a week before burning it and it is consistently 11% MC.

 

I have a log boiler so fast burning isn't an issue.

[ash_smith123]

so your perpetrating the confusion for the public as my air dried measures from 10% upwards your simply doing 2 levels of kiln dried.

 

 

Yes... I can't keep up otherwise so yes I offer 2 types of kiln dried. In the last 2 years not 1 person has asked if I dry my "seasoned logs" naturally or in the kiln. In reality a very small amount of people care!

 

If marketing your logs better than kiln dried because it's better for the environment I would look into the fact that letting wood rot gives just as much carbon footprint than burning it. So if I left all the waste I burn in the yard to rot my car in footprint wouldn't be any better than burning it... Just a thought!

Edited October 18, 2015 by ash_smith123

[ash_smith123]

Your only real argument that air drying is so much better than kiln drying because it's more environmentally friendly....So let's look at other things. Let's just say we both sell the same 10 artic loads of firewood a year.

So the hauliers bringing it to us. What if yours has a 20 year old truck and my haulier has a brand new truck that gives out half emissions.

Then the processing equipment, you have a 30 year old diesel forklift and I have a electric forklift charged from solar panels. Your processor is pto with a 30 year old tractor behind it running on red and mine is a 3 phase new machine that is also run off solar panels.

You are running the wood out in a 20 year old transit where I have bought a brand new transit again giving out a lot less emissions or even one of those new electric trucks that hold 1 cube that again I run off solar panels.

Yes this is all hypothetical but you need to look at the bigger picture. Having a kiln is one part of a "bad for the environment" picture.

[openspaceman]

Y

If marketing your logs better than kiln dried because it's better for the environment I would look into the fact that letting wood rot gives just as much carbon footprint than burning it. So if I left all the waste I burn in the yard to rot my carbon footprint wouldn't be any better than burning it... Just a thought!

 

Yes burn wood in place of a fuel that has been mined from an ancient carbon store and it's neutral.

 

Grow trees and harvest them as the current growth begins to tail off, and replant/regenerate the forest, and use the wood in a structure that lasts and you are locking up carbon in the structure. Allow it to decompose and there is no net carbon benefit, but there are many others.

 

Turn it to char, utilise the heat and return the char to the soil and it is carbon negative for many years.