smallest saw for milling?

[Woodworks]

I tried a small mill on a ms460 but it's not really up to the task if you value your time. It's very slow, hard on the saw and bar not to mention the fuel consumed.

 

As for making timbers for your house if you ment for the structural stuff the wood will need grading to comply with structural engineers drawings. This is related to species, knot size and frequency.

[agg221]

A lot depends on your expectations.

 

A small saw - one with a maximum 18"-20" bar specified will work well enough with a small log mill to:

 

a) tell you whether you enjoy milling.

b) make a few boards for hobby use.

 

It's best to try to keep cuts narrow where possible, but in practice if you cut an 18" log in half, then take cuts the other way you get a good amount of timber of 4" to 9" which will suit most projects.

 

Above about 70cc on the powerhead the Alaskan starts to become the best option, increasing in size with power.

 

The real key to enjoyable milling is a very finely tuned chain. This means having all teeth absolutely sharp and absolutely identical in length and angle. In hard wood (as opposed to hardwood) this is pretty much essential and I don't believe you can do this well enough except with a precision filing jig or grinder, with positive depth stops and angle setting. This is the difference between taking ages, using a lot of fuel and getting nowhere and a reasonably pleasant experience.

 

Bigger is definitely better on saws, but you would get a long way with 90cc and upwards unless you specifically want to mill big timber. I use an 066, 070, 076 and 090 and to be honest I pretty much stick to the 076 for general milling and the 066 on a mini-mill (very useful for making beams for construction). I generally use bars up to around 48" but can go longer if needed. I generally work single-handed, although when Burrell pushes the other end of the mill through a 48" oak butt it does make it easier!

 

Re. construction with your own timber. Check the latest, but certainly a couple of years ago this was possible but for the structural bits you need take a bit of care in how you go about it to comply with the rules (assuming you are building England of course).

 

I suggest sticking to hardwood (oak is easiest because it is high strength, naturally durable so the lack of pressure treatment doesn't matter and your engineer will have figures to hand to calculate for it) because the grading system is visual, whereas for softwood such as larch it is mechanical, which makes it expensive to get a sample from every site tested. It is a good idea to comply with the visual grading requirements but they don't formally apply to timber above 20% moisture content when installed. This means that you can technically install what you like when it's green and building control can't say anything about it, but your house might fall down so it's probably not a good idea!

 

The visual grading system was certainly findable through a google search and is easy to use. You need to be qualified to formally apply it, ie to sign off timber as passing, but since it doesn't formally apply to green timber in practice you can do your own if you install your timber above 20% mc. It is a good idea to inform your engineer though if you are doing this, as they can over-specify the timber to ensure it is the lowest grade in strength calculations which gives you some leeway.

 

As I said, check that the above hasn't changed, but it was certainly the case fairly recently.

 

Alec

Edited September 15, 2015 by agg221

[Eddy_t]

Having been milling with an ms880 and my 362xp (it's been converted to 75cc and ported) running a 24" b&c, you'll definitely need a 90+cc saw if you want to do anything substantial (over 20"), anything less would require a minimum of 70cc

[Woodworks]

A lot depends on your expectations.

 

 

 

The real key to enjoyable milling is a very finely tuned chain. This means having all teeth absolutely sharp and absolutely identical in length and angle. In hard wood (as opposed to hardwood) this is pretty much essential and I don't believe you can do this well enough except with a precision filing jig or grinder, with positive depth stops and angle setting. This is the difference between taking ages, using a lot of fuel and getting nowhere and a reasonably pleasant experience.

 

 

 

Alec

 

If that last bit was aimed at me my slow experience was with a brand new Gradenberg milling chain

[agg221]

If that last bit was aimed at me my slow experience was with a brand new Gradenberg milling chain

 

Wasn't aimed at anyone, but I have seen some interesting efforts at sharpening milling chain and was guilty myself before I got the grinder

 

Alec

[Woodworks]

Wasn't aimed at anyone, but I have seen some interesting efforts at sharpening milling chain and was guilty myself before I got the grinder

 

Alec

 

Surprised a man of your skills goes for a grinder over a hand filing. I have done little sharpening on the milling chain but experience with regular chains is that you get a better edge with a file. Yes it takes a bit of practice to keep things even but a vernier gauge comes in handy for this.

[Big J]

Surprised a man of your skills goes for a grinder over a hand filing. I have done little sharpening on the milling chain but experience with regular chains is that you get a better edge with a file. Yes it takes a bit of practice to keep things even but a vernier gauge comes in handy for this.

 

I disagree.

 

Overall, electric grinding will maintain a better edge.

 

When doing a lot of milling with a 1/2 088/MS88 set up, we were cutting some fairly hard timbers, doing some quite wide (up to 65 inches) cuts. Resharpening is required every 3 cuts. It takes about 3-5 minutes to freehand electric sharpen a 7ft chain. How long do you think it would take with a hand file and gauge?

 

When milling with less power, it's especially important to sharpen extremely regularly. Say for instance you were doing a 10ft cut 30 inches wide with an MS880 cutting ash. I'd sharpen every second cut, though only a tickle. The two minutes it takes to sharpen you will see back in quicker cutting and you will save the fuel and excessive wear on your chain/bar/powerhead.

[Woodworks]

Not doubting the speed of a good grinder on a large chain just find on a regular chain you get a better edge from a file.

 

When you say you grind freehand I am presuming that's Gradenberg or one of similar style?

Edited September 16, 2015 by Woodworks

[ucoulddoit]

The issue of strength grading timber is potentially a real problem if not approached in the right way and in my opinion starts with selection of suitable logs and milling to produce 'structural' timbers, not just milled timber. I worked as a structural design engineer for many years, including a fair bit of timber engineering and green oak framing, and would have been quite wary of accepting timbers that weren't certified - the potential consequences and liabilities were just not worth taking a risk..... For instance, large section timbers for beams and columns are often milled by 'boxing the heart', but you can't check this once the structure is up and trust, built up over time and successful projects often has to be relied upon rather than detailed checks of every millimetre of wood. If a piece of graded timber is sawn along its length into two pieces, they may become different grades to the original piece. And there are other potential problems.

 

Having said that, timber framers worked for centuries without regulations and with some care and knowledge I don't see any major barriers to using self milled structural timbers for your own use. But I think it would be advisable to start by learning about green oak framing, the construction issues and have a completed frame design before starting to mill. Also, I'd recommend having the timbers independently graded if they are being used in a major investment such as a house.

 

I mentioned in an earlier post on this thread that I've just completed construction of a frame for an outbuilding using green larch. As Alec mentioned, published guidance on strength grading green softwoods is limited, but I'll look over my notes from when I designed the frame and post a few notes about my approach which might be of interest to others.

 

One other thought that this thread raised is the difference between chainsaw milling through and through boards for joinery and furniture making, compared to milling large section structural timbers. I don't have anywhere near the experience of many of the others who have added to this thread. But from my limited experience it seems to me that a large chainsaw is a major advantage when milling through and through boards, often from quite large logs. After a bit of time spent setting up and making the first cut, the subsequent cuts are quickly made (and even quicker with a big saw). Whereas a large section structural timber, requires setting up to remove the top from the log. Then (assuming like me you have just one chainsaw) remove the Alaskan mill from the chainsaw and fit the mini mill. Set up the guide board and cut off one side of the log at exactly 90 degrees to the first cut. Re-attach the Alasken mill and cut off the bottom of the log. Rotate the log and cut off the fourth side. And all done single handedly....! So a lot more time spent setting up and proportionately less actually milling? I wondered if others find milling structural timbers more time consuming than T+T boards? Working alone, on a good day, on a steep slope, after a bit of practice, I could complete two large section beams/columns...... Final thought that others might want to comment on is that logs milled for structural timbers are often small/medium sized and yield just one beam/column with the heart boxed, or perhaps a couple of joists, one each side of the heart?

 

Andrew

[Big J]

Not doubting the speed of a good grinder on a large chain just find on a regular chain you get a better edge from a file.

 

When you say you grind freehand I am presuming that's Gradenberg or one of similar style?

 

Granberg electric grinder for the teeth, angle grinder for the depth gauges.