H&S Standards Arb

[Philip]

I agree with Dean. I have worked on building sites all most of my life and H&S is largely common sense. Most of that list can be set up and in place. You do it as a routine and not all of it needs monitoring all the time. Got to face it we use some dangerous kit and run around canopies like monkeys. Like it or not its a good baseline for saftey. P

[Tom D]

Not wanting to turn this thread into an anti AA rant BUT... I find the AA's boast that thanks to them we can still use a chainsaw a bit rich when they have done nothing to defend the use of roped access in favour of MEWP's.

Here are a few points on that front, there are far more accidents involving MEWP's each year than in conventional tree work, ok there are far more MEWP hours worked in a year.. But if you only count accidents where the guide to good climbing practice was being followed there are none that I can find. All the roped tree access accidents involved a breach of the guide in some way.

 

So the AA should be saying " there are accidents in tree work, we need to make sure people follow the proper proceedures." whereas what they are actually saying is "there are accidents in tree work we need to completely abandon our tried and tested proceedures and use equipment not designed for the job which is ultimately less safe. Which is however testable and certifiable therefore better (but worse)"

[Andy Clark]

Kev, don't worry about it... like I said, (in a slightly more sarcastic tone) despite the OCA link we've unfortunately never actually met, but i've done enough of my homework over the years to know that you're very passionate about the industry....

 

Red wine or not mate, that ain't a bad thing...... personally, i'd had a rubbish day and couldn't sleep for love nor money (hence posting at 2am or something silly), so wasn't really in the mood for being tactful and diplomatic either....

 

So let's consider that as a nod, a handshake, and a humble smile then eh??

 

[skyhuck]

Not wanting to turn this thread into an anti AA rant BUT... I find the AA's boast that thanks to them we can still use a chainsaw a bit rich when they have done nothing to defend the use of roped access in favour of MEWP's.

Here are a few points on that front, there are far more accidents involving MEWP's each year than in conventional tree work, ok there are far more MEWP hours worked in a year.. But if you only count accidents where the guide to good climbing practice was being followed there are none that I can find. All the roped tree access accidents involved a breach of the guide in some way.

 

So the AA should be saying " there are accidents in tree work, we need to make sure people follow the proper proceedures." whereas what they are actually saying is "there are accidents in tree work we need to completely abandon our tried and tested proceedures and use equipment not designed for the job which is ultimately less safe. Which is however testable and certifiable therefore better (but worse)"

 

 

I totally agree Tom.

 

The way I see it the AA is run by "business men" not "tree men" or "climbers".

 

If you are a business man running a tree firm, your main expenditure is on skilled labour, IE climbers.

 

If they can "deskill" the industry by getting rid of climbers, the big firms, like their's, can afford to have a range of MEWPS to deal with different sites. And finding guys to stick in MEWPS is way cheaper than finding skilled, prodution speed climbers.

 

AND if the small, skilled, owner climber firms are squeezed out buy legislation, the fact that MEWPS are slower will not matter.

 

The problem as I see it, is the kind of people who want to get involved in things like the AA, are very different to a guy who just wants to climb trees and provide for his family.

 

Its like politics, the people who SHOULD be politicians, DON'T want to be.

 

Edited August 1, 2009 by skyhuck

[Dean Lofthouse]

 

. And finding guys to stick in MEWPS is way cheaper than finding skilled, prodution speed climbers.

 

the fact that MEWPS are slower will not matter.

 

 

Hahaha,

 

You need to have a word with the lads that are coming with me to the show about how slow I am with my mewp at taking a tree down. They hire me and it fairly regularly

 

Last week I kept 4 goundies on their toes and kept having to stop to let them catch up.

 

I use the mewp on probably 2 or 3 % of my jobs if that, so speed production climbing is still well and truely practiced

 

Yes a MEWP maybe slower in the hands of an operator who is scared of it and doesn't know the machine, but in the hands of a seasoned operator who doesn't have to look at the little pictures on the levers It can be extrememly fast

[Mesterh]

Hahaha,

 

You need to have a word with the lads that are coming with me to the show about how slow I am with my mewp at taking a tree down. They hire me and it fairly regularly

 

Last week I kept 4 goundies on their toes and kept having to stop to let them catch up.

 

I use the mewp on probably 2 or 3 % of my jobs if that, so speed production climbing is still well and truely practiced

 

Yes a MEWP maybe slower in the hands of an operator who is scared of it and doesn't know the machine, but in the hands of a seasoned operator who doesn't have to look at the little pictures on the levers It can be extrememly fast

 

 

Dont believe ya show us a vid!

 

 

[skyhuck]

Hahaha,

 

You need to have a word with the lads that are coming with me to the show about how slow I am with my mewp at taking a tree down. They hire me and it fairly regularly

 

Last week I kept 4 goundies on their toes and kept having to stop to let them catch up.

 

I use the mewp on probably 2 or 3 % of my jobs if that, so speed production climbing is still well and truely practiced

 

Yes a MEWP maybe slower in the hands of an operator who is scared of it and doesn't know the machine, but in the hands of a seasoned operator who doesn't have to look at the little pictures on the levers It can be extrememly fast

 

As I have said many, many times before, if MEWPS are faster, why do my competitors not get a MEWP and take all the work???

[Dean Lofthouse]

As I have said many, many times before, if MEWPS are faster, why do my competitors not get a MEWP and take all the work???

 

All depends on what that work is, different kit for different work mate.

 

Plus a £40K price tag,

 

£70K for the one that I would like

 

But how you can say a mewp is slow and require unskilled operators is beyond me

[Arbocop]

Not wanting to turn this thread into an anti AA rant BUT... I find the AA's boast that thanks to them we can still use a chainsaw a bit rich when they have done nothing to defend the use of roped access in favour of MEWP's.

Here are a few points on that front, there are far more accidents involving MEWP's each year than in conventional tree work, ok there are far more MEWP hours worked in a year.. But if you only count accidents where the guide to good climbing practice was being followed there are none that I can find. All the roped tree access accidents involved a breach of the guide in some way.

 

So the AA should be saying " there are accidents in tree work, we need to make sure people follow the proper proceedures." whereas what they are actually saying is "there are accidents in tree work we need to completely abandon our tried and tested proceedures and use equipment not designed for the job which is ultimately less safe. Which is however testable and certifiable therefore better (but worse)"

 

Im puzzeled were or when have any of the organisations be it AA ISA et al ever actualy said that ?? impirrically

 

love to look it up

 

cheers

 

kev

[Andy Clark]

[/b]

 

Im puzzeled were or when have any of the organisations be it AA ISA et al ever actualy said that ?? impirrically

 

Kev,

 

I think what Tom D is trying to say, is that it is more a case of "by implication".

 

I mean, take the AAAC criteria for example...... a very ambiguous doc, that practically allows contractors to (for want of a better phrase) "write their own rules".

 

But yet c'mon.... is it REALLY that difficult to stand up, be counted, and start trying to put a stop to all the "grey area" nonsense and start pushing more towards a standardised industry?

 

 

Take their chartered route for example.... Charterted Environmentalist, Via SocEnv?? Eh??

 

Why is it so difficult for them to do it, but yet people like Dealga O'Callaghan can work beside the ICF, and come up with the Charted Arboriculturist status

??

 

(p.s... Jonathan Hazel is director of Arb for Glendale/Parkwood holdings... Hardly a small independent consultancy eh?)