To climb or not to climb with a First Aid Bag? That is the question....

[Katie at FoxMedics]

That's great news! I am glad that it has been thought provoking..

[samdawson012]

I always bring a small first aid kit when I'm climbing. In some way, it helps me being more comfortable. I agree with the others here that CAT tourniquets are one of the best.

[Tree Lc]

I started reading this post and am not sure what the correct answer is. We have extensive ground first aid kits, some of our climbers have emergency bit and pieces but we need to be aware of the best practice when using a tourniquet.

When and Where Tourniquets Are Acceptable to Use

 

Tree LC

Tree care Horsham

[markieg31]

£15 that will save your life. Money well spent imho.

 

By the way, anybody who thinks they can descend a 60 foot tree and control that descent whilst they spray paint 6 pints of blood on the rope and pass out after the first 10 foot is dangerously deluded.

 

You only need to see one person with major arterial bleeding to understand how many lives have been saved by tourniquets. With most ambulance response times outside cities being over 8 minutes, so say 15 minimum in country areas, you are on your own with only your tourniquet for company.

 

fingers crossed i wont need an ambulance.

 

Last time one i called for an ambulance it took 45mins. A child had come off horse and snapped forearm.

 

Think i could probably bleed out from a nose bleed in that time

[Taffelliott]

I have a thigh pouch with a CAT, israeli dressing - which can also be adapted into a tourniquet, celox tea bags, tuff cut scissiors, a couple of NP's and OP's, 2 x chest seals and a 14 gauge needle.

 

Its either on me (it is a pain in the arse) or in my rope bag where I can haul it up in seconds.

 

With ambulance times in South Wales being well over 20mins and upto 60mins in rural areas I would rather be safe than sorry.

 

As for the use of tourniquets it used to be frowned upon but is now becoming more acceptable. I had a conversation with a doc in The Gwent Hosp, Newport a few years ago about their use and he was quite anti them, changed his mind when I asked what would he prefer a dead patient or alive patient brought in to him.

 

What first aid qualifications does everyone have on here, also do you have to pay for them or the companies you work for.

 

Does anyone know of training providers who do FPOS I arb related courses.

 

Excellent thread keep it going.

 

Taff

[Minotaur]

You are deluded if you think you can get out of a tree if you have certain serious injuries or an arterial bleed. An its likely that you will injure yourself further if you try to fast line it down.

Simple answer carry a CAT and one or two Israeli bandages or similar on your person, in an easily accessible place.

Ensure you have a decent First Aid kit on the ground, and more importantly co-workers who know how to use the kit, and have had recent 'practice'.

Main kit should hold at least 2 more CAT's, numerous Israeli type bandages and celox impregnated bandage or similar. This kit can and will make the difference should you or your colleagues have a 'major' trauma.

 

So the knowledge to use the kit and regular practice to keep it fresh in your memory. And that means practising with the dressings and a CAT - costs more, but what value do 'you' put on a life???

 

PS: the use of a zip tie should be a 'very' last resort - whoever mentions it above, do yourself a favour and buy a CAT.

Edited March 6, 2015 by Minotaur
adding

[Mr_D]

Huge huge bug bare of mine this first aid stuff, I was arborist from school untill joining the army at 21 and been back doing it 2 years now after leaving the forces.

 

I have seen first hand what a CAT and cellox can do and that's save a life, and it's great to see the industry is starting to high light the fact a plaster and eyewash isn't good enough as a first aid kit.

Having the right kit is great, but training is what's needed, like it's been mentioned, when things goes wrong it's not like the movies, a CAT isn't an easy thing to put on when you have an arterial bleed, and how many know the correct way to put them on ect, large wound dressings, not enough people know how much blood they hold and how much blood the body can loose before you need serious help, and all this info is stuff you need to know to then Be able to pass on to the paramedics when they arrive on scene.

 

Sorry if that sounds like a rant and it's not ment to be, it's through no fault of anyone's that people don't know what to do, and it's only because I have served in afghan ect that I know what to do. Company's need to do more in regards to first aid training, and providing the correct kit on the trucks, I don't understand how you can pass an AA assessment with halfords first aid kits in your vans?

[ShooTa]

Although not a climber - my FAk has a UKF wound dressing - plus other non standard bits and bobs - so this thread has really got me thinking about TQs and isreali dressings and celox (i too had heard about the burning/blood poisoning) .

 

And yes im in full agreement about the use of TQs and chest seals and the huge need for regular and upto date training for their use, i can barely remeber my Tq training form the army now.

 

lastly - where do you guys purchase yours? off the net?

[Al North]

Excellent thread this one. Remember when the crap hits the fan and its you on the receiving end its not how good your training and your first aid kit is that matters - its how well trained, practised and equipped the people are that you are working with!

 

Some interesting comments about rescue of suspected spinally injured casualties too. In some areas the emergency services may struggle to reach you if you are remote or in rough terrain. Not all areas have line rescue units so it may be that the best equipped people to perform a rescue are yourselves - after all nobody understands your environment better than you!

 

Any medical intervention you try in a tree is going to be more difficult than on the ground. Much better to do something quick and temporary and evacuate quickly to the ground where you can do much more. "patch and go" rather than "stay and play".

 

Worth putting some consideration in at the initial rigging stage concerning how it might impact on a rapid evac.

[Al North]

A quick comment on the training too:

 

EFAW+F simply does not have enough time in the course to consider anything in great detail considering the other topics that have to be covered. Its the minimum standard for FC sites so its what a lot of people go for. For self-employed guys its only one day paying out and not earning rather than the 3 days for a FAW+F course.

 

A well tailored FAW+F course has much more time to consider a range of scenarios relevant to arb and forestry work. A good chunk of it can be outside too.

 

There's lots of other training courses out there but beware its one of the largest unregulated training sectors there is so people are free to make up their own courses in some cases. I have seen some stuff lately that wasn't just badly delivered it was just plain wrong!

 

Talk to your training provider - tell them what you want to cover and why. Its your money, your training and your life it could be saving!