Employers Liability Insurance

[County 764]

Hi Guys

 

Quick question

 

Anyone know if employers liability insurance is required if you're a sole trader but work on a site and hire in a sub contractor?

 

Assuming the subcontractor is a sole trader or has insurance already in place

 

Cheers

[Johny Walker]

Hi Guys

 

Quick question

 

Anyone know if employers liability insurance is required if you're a sole trader but work on a site and hire in a sub contractor?

 

Assuming the subcontractor is a sole trader or has insurance already in place

 

Cheers

 

it is a legal requirment, any wich way some folk try to twist it , if they are working under you ,you need it. if you send them of on a job doing with there own kit with out you no you dont , but its best still to have it to cover your ares ,some one else could prob explain better:laugh1:but thats the jest of it

Edited February 1, 2015 by Johny Walker

[bumble B]

Best bet phone an insurance company.

[john k]

From the HSE:

 

"You are only required by law to have employers’ liability insurance for people who you employ under a contract of service or apprenticeship.

 

Whether or not you need employers’ liability insurance for someone who works for you depends on the terms of your contract with them. This contract can be spoken, written or implied. It does not matter whether you usually call someone an employee or self-employed or what their tax status is. Whether you choose to call your contract a contract of employment or a contract for services is largely irrelevant. What matters is the real nature of your relationship with the people who work for you and the nature and degree of control that you have over the work they do.

 

You may need employers’ liability insurance for someone who works for you where:

- you deduct national insurance and income tax from the money you pay them;

- you have the right to control where and when they work and how they do it;

- you supply their work materials and equipment;

- you have a right to any profit your workers make although you may choose to share this with them through commission, performance pay or shares in the company;

- you require that person only to deliver the service and they cannot employ a substitute if they are unable to do the work; or

- they are treated in the same way as other employees, for example, they do the same work under the same conditions as someone else you employ.

 

You may not need employers’ liability insurance for people who work for you where:

- they do not work exclusively for you (for example, if they operate as an independent contractor);

- they supply most of the equipment and materials they need to do the job;

- they are clearly in business for their own personal benefit;

- they can employ a substitute when they are unable to do the work themselves;

- you do not deduct income tax or national insurance.

 

However, even if someone is self-employed for tax purposes they may be classed as an employee for other reasons and you may still need employers’ liability insurance to cover them."

 

More details here:

http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/hse40.pdf

[AA Teccie (Paul)]

Hi Guys

 

Quick question

 

Anyone know if employers liability insurance is required if you're a sole trader but work on a site and hire in a sub contractor?

 

Assuming the subcontractor is a sole trader or has insurance already in place

 

Cheers

 

As a benchmark, EL insurance is a requirement for ARB Approved even for Sole Traders regardless of how they engage their staff as the HSE guidance is massively "open to interpretation."

 

Certain employers/clients will also look favourably on you holding the insurance.

 

Hence I would strongly advise having it.

 

Cheers..

Paul

[Safety Steve]

t'has been said above.... it relates to what is known as the 'master/servant or contractor' test (hence questions about tools, methods, instruction etc.

 

If you opt for the 'get yer own...' which is quite ok, then make sure that a) you ask the question about their personal and public insurance cover in your vetting process (however simple this may be), b) it meets you clients specification (amount insured) and c) you not only check but take a copy of the policy certificate which is valid for when the work will take place (not last years certificate!).

 

Mates rates and routine are fine for conviviality and tax evasion - they are not your best friend when the fan is switched on.....

 

Any good 'mate' would not blink at providing the above, anyone else should be viewed as B2B and your business is the most important so protect it.

[AA Teccie (Paul)]

t'has been said above.... it relates to what is known as the 'master/servant or contractor' test (hence questions about tools, methods, instruction etc.

 

If you opt for the 'get yer own...' which is quite ok, then make sure that a) you ask the question about their personal and public insurance cover in your vetting process (however simple this may be), b) it meets you clients specification (amount insured) and c) you not only check but take a copy of the policy certificate which is valid for when the work will take place (not last years certificate!).

 

Mates rates and routine are fine for conviviality and tax evasion - they are not your best friend when the fan is switched on.....

 

Any good 'mate' would not blink at providing the above, anyone else should be viewed as B2B and your business is the most important so protect it.

 

Great post, thank you Steve

 

Paul

[Eddt]

I have just had to get employers liability to manage volunteers carrying out practical countryside tasks for a local authority, I was a bit resistant to get it at first as the volunteers were not using my tools and were registering as the Local authorities volunteers, however the Local authority required me to have this insurance. Other organisations I have worked for just required Public liability.

[Safety Steve]

I have just had to get employers liability to manage volunteers carrying out practical countryside tasks for a local authority, I was a bit resistant to get it at first as the volunteers were not using my tools and were registering as the Local authorities volunteers, however the Local authority required me to have this insurance. Other organisations I have worked for just required Public liability.

 

Probably because they have a 'system' - tell them you are not a number.....

 

This is usually standard as public sector do not want to carry any liability where they do not have to. Even though they may be registered on the LA scheme, for the sake of the work they are under your 'control' at the time of the work. In all likelihood they would be 'double insured' should something go awry then it is up to each side on a defence case to point to the combined (defendant)

respondent to say - 'they pay!'

[County 764]

Thanks guys, that's good information and helped clear things up