Compartmentalisation of wounds

[MATTMOSS]

But fungal growth also stops around the same temperature, although it starts at lower temperatures than the trees active growth phase does.

 

really? I found lots of info on optimal growth temps for certain fungi but really struggled with temperatures that it begins to slow down.

Where did you read this?

[daltontrees]

Nobody said trees are clever! its the process thats clever.

 

you could say that everything is simply the conclusion of a sequence of trial and error iterations, does that make a human or any animal or machine for that matter, less clever?

 

Machines are not clever. The person who programmes them to do what they are intended to do is clever.

 

Processes are not clever, The person who created the process to do what it was intended to do is clever.

 

It might be an arbirtary distinction to make, but 'clever' requires reasoning and deduction, and appreciation of cause and effect. It seems to rely on experience, memory, communication, perception and, as far as emotional intelligence is concerned, emotion. Trees don't do that. Machines don't do that. Some animals do. Some people do. But not trees.

 

I amn't having a go at anyone, I just really think that a better understanding of trees comes from a better understanding of their mechanisms rather than the tempting alternative of assuming that they or their processes are in some or any way clever. Once I get into trying to understand trees, and what they achieve to survive and procreate as non-thinking beings, I am really gobsmacked by them. It is an appreciation that for me surpasses all other perspectives of trees. It is a wonderment at the world and the universe that I hope I never tire of. I'm not especially clever but I am delighted just about every day of my life to be able to appreciate all these things and to find something new that adds to my understanding. Seeing a tree that is of a speciae that has evolved to overcome the challenges of its environment and seeign that as a consequnce of evolution adds a 4th dimension to a tree's beauty... time. Measured on a scale of literally billions of years of evolution's inefficient circus of a laboratory. That alone fascinates and humbles.

[daltontrees]

really? I found lots of info on optimal growth temps for certain fungi but really struggled with temperatures that it begins to slow down.

Where did you read this?

 

Also worht considering whether the tree's active growth phase is the really important thing. Surely trees metabolise, even slowly, in the cold and in so doing could be combatting infection and decay even though not actively growing? Thye could theoretically keep up with fungal infection even when dormant. Otherwise we'd all die of a common cold first time we go to sleep?

[Chris at eden]

There has definitely been an article about it somewhere discrediting it for the reasons Chris mentions above. Maybe an aa journal?

 

 

The paper is called straightening out the askanazy curve, i think it was in an isa journal. You should be able to get it from google. There is a really good site with all the old isa papers. Anything older than a year i think.

[MATTMOSS]

Also worht considering whether the tree's active growth phase is the really important thing. Surely trees metabolise, even slowly, in the cold and in so doing could be combatting infection and decay even though not actively growing? Thye could theoretically keep up with fungal infection even when dormant. Otherwise we'd all die of a common cold first time we go to sleep?

 

Well jules I would of totally agreed with that a few months ago and I still beleive it is logical however, more recently I have learnt that the main forms of reactive biological defence mechanisms within beech trees at least are completely inactive during cold winter temperatures.

As such the hypha of certain sp of fungi, kretzsmaria for one can grow though the cells of beech wood without triggering any host response at all until temperatures rise.

Fascinating stuff.

[Gary Prentice]

really? I found lots of info on optimal growth temps for certain fungi but really struggled with temperatures that it begins to slow down.

Where did you read this?

 

I don't know! I came across it, after much searching during the resistograph/beech/K.D assignment. (after much searching). I'll look up my references and post it later.

[Gary Prentice]

The paper is called straightening out the askanazy curve, i think it was in an isa journal. You should be able to get it from google. There is a really good site with all the old isa papers. Anything older than a year i think.

 

That's the one:thumbup1:

[daltontrees]

Well jules I would of totally agreed with that a few months ago and I still beleive it is logical however, more recently I have learnt that the main forms of reactive biological defence mechanisms within beech trees at least are completely inactive during cold winter temperatures.

As such the hypha of certain sp of fungi, kretzsmaria for one can grow though the cells of beech wood without triggering any host response at all until temperatures rise.

Fascinating stuff.

 

Fascinating indeed. I suppose we should consider walls 1, 2 and 3 of codit separately relative to the rate of spread of fungi. Any hypha that can move directly up and down vessels uninhibited by tyloses will make rapid progress, perhaps measurable in centimetres a year. However, fungi travelling across dense annual rings will eb slowed considerably an might be doing well to achieve a rings a year because there are few voids to use as highways. Ditto transverse spread through and around rays. Very slow I would expect. If all that is correct, dormancy is not an issue except in wall 1 directions.

 

And that sneaky King Kretsch can munch its way through s2 layers without oxygen, any time and any place. I bet dormancy doesn't affect it too much, unless it derives oxygen from host cells during active tree metabolism.

 

Yet another thing I don't really know about trees...

[daltontrees]

That's the one:thumbup1:

 

Just read it, pretty interesting challenge to the simple assumption that bud-burst pruning is disastrous for trees. Pesonally I prefer summer pruning of Prunus avium to winter pruning, because it seems to be the only way of gettign a decent gum defence reaction before the air starts swirling with silver leaf spores in the autumn. Winter pruning of P.a. seems just to leave dry exposed cuts right through the year. It's one of the only genus that I still use wound paint on.

 

As the article says "It is hoped that the evidence presented in this short commentary will be useful for informing revisions in arboricultural curricula,

act as a reminder that generic models should be evaluated before they are applied, and contribute toward the general discussion on the optimal timing of arboricultural operations." It has certainy done that here.