Living in the woods - volunteers needed to help with winter work

[kevinjohnsonmbe]

Dear Kevin,

 

as I said in my original message, I've done wwoofing on and off. That means that in between, since being underage, till now (I'm 27), I've worked, even unpaid overtime, I've paid taxes, rented rooms and houses, paid bills, paid motorway tolls in France.. you name it. I've been a 'normal member of society'.

 

This conversation could get very deep, but I don't want to burden Doug's original thread. Let's just say that I'm one of those people who think the world would be a better place if we could opt where our taxes went. I'm sure no more than 10% of all I've ever paid in tax, has gone to street lamps, roads, and the NHS which by the way, yes I did rely on whilst wwoofing (except NHS - I like treating myself with plants.. very hippie of me I know... I just don't want pharma companies cashing in on all the money when a tonsillities can be cured with a thyme infusion...)

 

A safe bet would be however that most of it went to wars and feeding the army men, something I don't agree with. The day that changes, I might decide not to go off-grid.

 

In essence you could say that my working tax paid life has paid for the privilege for me to use the very few services that I used and still use.

 

As for society providing the platform for that chosen lifestyle, I think you're right, but I'd like to turn that statement into "it's BECAUSE of the state of society, that more and more people are looking to go off grid 'drop out' traveller lifestyles."

 

But I'm grateful. I love learning. It's why I'm doing wwoofing. I don't consider myself a dreamer. I consider myself someone reasonable, who's noticing that unemployment is constantly on the rise, that the divide between rich and poor is getting bigger, that families are being separated due to the pressures from their caring governments, that people don't know how to grow food or build their own homes anymore which humans have done most of their existance, that by the age I reach 'retirement', retirement age might not even exist, nor pensions for that matter, that old crafts are being lost, and that one day, we might need those skills when **** hits the fan. |

 

So what should one do? Pursue a career? Try not to get fired for the next 40 years of his/her life? Put half of it away in a savings account, hoping there's not another economic crisis when you'll discover the bankers once again stole all your money?

 

Meh.. I'd rather learn how to build my own home, grow my own veg, heal myself at home, ride a bicycle on dirt tracks to leave the shiny potholed roads to ever increasing fuel dependent cars, and spend less time working, and more time being with loved ones. Work to live, not live to work.

 

That romantic enough?

 

 

I was going to PM this so as not to further derail the thread, but I thought discussing the (perceived) pro's & cons may serve to raise awareness and potential engagement - wether that a) proves true or b) is nonsense, only time will tell.

 

 

It's difficult in a forum to communicate all the nuances of a conversation, seriously, when I said good on you and a part of me is envious, I meant just that. I take my hat off to you and I share many of the feelings / counter points you make above.

 

It wasn't meant as an "anti" or antagonistic post, but just as there are elements and sentiments I share with you, there are elements that I find contradictory and that make me a little uneasy.

 

Self sufficiency / self reliance / determination / resilience / responsibility etc etc.... All highly saleable / usable / necessary / diminishing skills. That's a massive plus.

 

The bit I struggle to reconcile is when some parts of the mainstream society are dropped but others are selectively retained. When this happens it tends to be the bits that are "useful" that are retained but without the necessary trappings of "collective contribution" - paying your contribution into the big pot.

 

I totally get when people are unhappy with the way some tax is spent - believe me, I'm one of them! But as individuals we divest that decision to the government. It ain't perfect, but what is?

 

So when woofing (or whatever other system of egalitarian lifestyle) purports to be an evolution of people power, it fundamentally fails to recognise that by not "paying in" the practitioner is by default taking a dump on someone further down the system that maybe reliant on the missing persons contribution into the big pot.

 

It's a dilemma, that's why part of me likes the concept, part of me doesn't.

[GreenGui]

Dear Kevin,

 

as I said in my original message, I've done wwoofing on and off. That means that in between, since being underage, till now (I'm 27), I've worked, even unpaid overtime, I've paid taxes, rented rooms and houses, paid bills, paid motorway tolls in France.. you name it. I've been a 'normal member of society'.

 

This conversation could get very deep, but I don't want to burden Doug's original thread. Let's just say that I'm one of those people who think the world would be a better place if we could opt where our taxes went. I'm sure no more than 10% of all I've ever paid in tax, has gone to street lamps, roads, and the NHS which by the way, yes I did rely on whilst wwoofing (except NHS - I like treating myself with plants.. very hippie of me I know... I just don't want pharma companies cashing in on all the money when a tonsillities can be cured with a thyme infusion...)

 

A safe bet would be however that most of it went to wars and feeding the army men, something I don't agree with. The day that changes, I might decide not to go off-grid.

 

In essence you could say that my working tax paid life has paid for the privilege for me to use the very few services that I used and still use.

 

As for society providing the platform for that chosen lifestyle, I think you're right, but I'd like to turn that statement into "it's BECAUSE of the state of society, that more and more people are looking to go off grid 'drop out' traveller lifestyles."

 

But I'm grateful. I love learning. It's why I'm doing wwoofing. I don't consider myself a dreamer. I consider myself someone reasonable, who's noticing that unemployment is constantly on the rise, that the divide between rich and poor is getting bigger, that families are being separated due to the pressures from their caring governments, that people don't know how to grow food or build their own homes anymore which humans have done most of their existance, that by the age I reach 'retirement', retirement age might not even exist, nor pensions for that matter, that old crafts are being lost, and that one day, we might need those skills when **** hits the fan. |

 

So what should one do? Pursue a career? Try not to get fired for the next 40 years of his/her life? Put half of it away in a savings account, hoping there's not another economic crisis when you'll discover the bankers once again stole all your money?

 

Meh.. I'd rather learn how to build my own home, grow my own veg, heal myself at home, ride a bicycle on dirt tracks to leave the shiny potholed roads to ever increasing fuel dependent cars, and spend less time working, and more time being with loved ones. Work to live, not live to work.

 

That romantic enough?

 

Well said and good luck to you. Ignore the naysayer's.

[kev7937]

Ah I knew I shouldn't have mentioned that one.. especially as I no longer smoke...or drink... ah well. That one's on me.

 

Time travel? Hmm wouldn't want to.. back in the old days there were too many witch hunts.. and as for the future.. there'll probably be homeless hunts.

 

Heard of the 92yr old WW2 veteran who got arrested in Florida a few days ago for feeding the homeless?? Some new law about not being allowed to share food with people. Now that is why I love our governments.

 

 

 

I was refering to the terminology not the act, I don't give a monkeys what people do as long as it doesn't have a negative affect on others.

[Peat]

Without volunteer opportunities like this its very difficult for young people to get a start in any sort of rural industry. I was able to get an apprenticeship in woodland management because I had gained experience through volunteering and doing unpaid work off my own back. Having done volunteer work also shows that you are dedicated. Now maybe its not the ideal situation and it would have been great if I could have just walked into a paid job but it just doesn't work like that anymore. Almost all employers want experienced staff. So if you can't get a job to gain that experience, where do you start. Most of my friends have gone down this route to get them the job they are in now. And this isn't just outdoor work but stuff in cities too where they have to pay rent and do an unpaid internship. Now thats really not a great situation, but its the nature of trying to find meaningful work these days. So to accuse these people of being tax dodgers seems a little unfair. You need to be able to get a job before you can pay tax.

[Aicchalmers]

I think I'd actually really like to see more wwoofing style projects for all different types of woodland management in general. I think it works out as working very well for everybody, and I find that now being in a paid job it doesn't make so much of a difference monetarily to me; working around 25 hours a week either way, the one scenario;

a) wwoofing getting bed and board, nice food, a strong educational experience and enough to keep me going, a lot of flexibility in working hours and different communities and experiences, meeting lots of different people.

b) ~£170/week of which 50 goes on rent, 40 goes on a car, 25 goes on food etc etc, certainly marginally better off but not going to be saving up much ..

And certainly from both being a wwoofer and looking after them there isn't a lot of difference for the employer as they have to take a bit more time out to explain new tasks, but they also meet lots of people from different backgrounds.

Luckily I've found a job that's outdoors doing a wide range of woodland tasks and I'm still learning a lot and I'd expect to be paid for what I'm doing, but I've also commited long term and have a lot more responsibilities.

There's a lot of other stuff around like helpx,workaway etc but my experience with them (too a much lesser degree but still present with wwoofing) is that it's too broad what is expected of people and you get too many people seeing it as a holiday and not being really interested in working.

Seriously, if any hedgelayers or people with other useful skills would like to take me on for a week or two (in time taken off from my job) on a wwoofing basis I'd really be interested, and maybe it would be an idea having an arbtalk 'foofing' scheme?

[Wood wasp]

Re original post if you fancy it then go for it, if not for you then don't comment and less of negativity re minimum wage and so forth.

 

Aic - how can you work for £170 a week, £35 a day in my arithmetic? (5 day week)

 

And you're out with your costs for running a car too!

[s.varty]

This is no different to an internship, my son did a couple in London, he was paid £20 a day, cost him (me) £30 a day travelling, He,s now a fully employed graphic designer.

[Aicchalmers]

Re original post if you fancy it then go for it, if not for you then don't comment and less of negativity re minimum wage and so forth.

 

Aic - how can you work for £170 a week, £35 a day in my arithmetic? (5 day week)

 

And you're out with your costs for running a car too!

 

4 day week at 6 1/2 hours daily, nmw. I'm covering my living costs and learning a lot doing something I enjoy so I don't mind really .. of course I top it up where possible!

[Wood wasp]

Ok that makes but more sense Aic! Might need few days cutting a week next year Central Scotland - and I'll pay more than that! Got your info saved

[waterbird]

Hi Paul,

There is no minimum age - but they would have to be pretty keen & most likely personally known by any wwoofing hosts to take them on if under 18years old. Personally I would have to be very confident in taking anyone on under 20something.

Would def. be a good idea to suggest they check out helpx if volunteering is something they might like to do.

Thanks for following the thread - interesting developments. I thought the idea of volunteering in the woods might provoke some passion... but this thread was a surprise. All the best & I agree that volunteering can definitely be character building stuff.