Building a Badger Sett

[Adam M]

So wot about the widespread devestation badgers are doing to ground nesting birds, hedge hogs and bumble bee nests??

 

They was existing and new research coming out of the badger culling areas and other longer term study areas and have now proven a link to higher badger numbers= less hedgehogs. The hedgehog charities are scared to make a big deal out of it thou?? Seems the badger and the anti cull extremeist/terrorists associted with it are more important than hedgehogs which are rapidly declining

Anyone that actually works and lives in the country side can see the damage thse large animals cause.

In my opinion causing far more damage than foxes now, and a far more systematic hunter ie travels/hunts far more along straight lines hedges/fences the very place most conservation headlands are and where birds choose to nest.

 

I'm not 1 for exterminating any species BUT all species should be balanced, the sad fact is in todays countryside far to many top end predators (buzzards, red kites, badgers even pine martins in some areas) are raping the countryside, most prey species numbers are in free fall (waders, song birds or farmland birds).

These animals do not live on roadkill full time, did a 'ROGUE' badger not take a rare nest of eggs/birds on springwatch. ALL badgers will kill anything and everything they come across, takes a lot of protien to feed an animal of that size.

In almost every country in europe they shoot/hunt badgers and all there populations are far lower than the UK's

 

Apparently that 'research' was based upon an episode of Mock the Week rather than actual science (Of badgers, birds and bTB: why killing badgers won't save our skylarks - Badgergate).

 

Everything is anecdotal. I don't have the answers. I don't think a lot of people who think they do do either.

 

Meddling with ecosystems is incredibly complicated and targetting individual species is piddling in the wind.

 

Personally, I'm happy that the OP has been building artificial setts. It's good to see the interest out there. The alternative would either be no development (not going to happen) or just merk everything that gets in the way. This way, there is still the option to get the terriers and spades out at a later date, once actual real evidence rather than hunches comes to light.

 

Like matey above said, how we live is far more detrimental to all wildlife apart from urban foxes and pigeons, who love it.

[spiral]

 

Everything is anecdotal. I don't have the answers. I don't think a lot of people who think they do do either.

 

Meddling with ecosystems is incredibly complicated and targetting individual species is piddling in the wind.

 

Personally, I'm happy that the OP has been building artificial setts. It's good to see the interest out there. The alternative would either be no development (not going to happen) or just merk everything that gets in the way. This way, there is still the option to get the terriers and spades out at a later date, once actual real evidence rather than hunches comes to light.

 

Like matey above said, how we live is far more detrimental to all wildlife apart from urban foxes and pigeons, who love it.

 

That's sounds well thought out, based on fact rather than belief & generaly very true to me....

 

spiral

[countrryboy]

Apparently that 'research' was based upon an episode of Mock the Week rather than actual science (Of badgers, birds and bTB: why killing badgers won't save our skylarks - Badgergate).

 

Everything is anecdotal. I don't have the answers. I don't think a lot of people who think they do do either.

 

Meddling with ecosystems is incredibly complicated and targetting individual species is piddling in the wind.

 

Personally, I'm happy that the OP has been building artificial setts. It's good to see the interest out there. The alternative would either be no development (not going to happen) or just merk everything that gets in the way. This way, there is still the option to get the terriers and spades out at a later date, once actual real evidence rather than hunches comes to light.

 

Like matey above said, how we live is far more detrimental to all wildlife apart from urban foxes and pigeons, who love it.

 

 

So despite me not actually listing a study u can tell it is ancedotal?

Must admit can't find where i read them at moment but pretty sure was in both Shooting times and Songbird Survival members magazines.

 

U are right meddling with ecosystems is complicated but in the UK's very artifical ecosystem, but the fact u can target every other pedator quite lagally but leaving badgers IS piddling in the wind. It is very easy to blame modern farming, climate change ets but u only have to go to a very well run wild bird shoot to see farming and conservation working hand inhand. Keepers have been meddling with ecosystems fvery successfully for hundreds of years.

It really is not rocket science, u provide good habitat, feed and some protection from predators and u can turn the clock back decades in wild bird numbers

 

Wot is that famous saying there is 'lies damned lies and statistics' an awful lot of the scientific research in this country is seriously flawed and not worth the paper it is written on. Very often either who ever is paying for it or the scientist's preconcieved ideas tend to influeance the outcome and it often finds wt they wanted to find.

 

Must admit think the OP has done a good job building it, wether the badges ever actually use it is a different matter, they seem very keen to colonise old rabbit warrens, would not surprise me if it was never used.

Know of 2 artifical sett built for a motorway (never used) in 20 years and quite a lot off badger/otter tunnels laid under the motorway and don't think any have ever been used. (when ever i pass i always check for footprints) despite there being sets within 50m.

 

Back to broc and research even if research is acedotal surely it is still worth something? And thats a major problem in this country so many graduates look and treat proper country people as if there mud on there shoe.

If a farmer/keeper/country person who has lived in the same area for 20,30 or 50 years, his knowledge of the area is not worthless just because he does not have a piece of paper with leters on it after his name.

If these same things are being noticed countrywide then surely there must be something in them. Can't all be a conspiracy??

 

Ur dr/proff is quite right it is very hard to point the finger purely at 1 predator but the density and wieght of badgers means they must eat a lot of food to sustain them. With hedgehogs they seem to live quite happliy with foxes and no other animal really predates them, so yes the blame can be fairly laid squarey at broc's door.

If u look at any predator study esp some off the GWCT work esp Otterburn, Allerton and Sailsbury plain where not only have they poved the effect predators have on wildlife but also the effect of proper legal predator control can have. 1 rspb reserve has increased its breeding wader pop by 400% since it started a proper predator control program.

They should be shouting this from the rooftops as its a major success but u never hear a word as they don't want there members to know they are killing wildlife!

 

Are u really telling me that foxes, stoats weasals, corvids are all bad and cause harm to prey populations when numbers get to high, yet the badger doesn't despite being the heaviest and living in the highest densities??

 

Too many people esp academices/countryfile type think that predators either live on fresh air and promises and they and prey have this specific relationship theyhave elsewhere in prime untuched ecosystems, but in uK almost all predators are oportunist and will eat anything they can easily find and kill all they can to survive if that source gets scarce they switch to another, not starve to death, so they casn have a massive affect on some populations esp if easy to catch/stupid (esp if not evolved in there presence)

Edited July 8, 2014 by countrryboy

[spiral]

So despite me not actually listing a study u can tell it is ancedotal?

Must admit can't find where i read them at moment but pretty sure was in both Shooting times and Songbird Survival members magazines.)

 

 

Classic!

 

Without the study & if you cant even remember where you read it , how do we know that you didn't misunderstand it or miss some relevant key words & just used it to support your belief? Or that it was just silly stuff funded by

Iliketokillitmakesmefeelhard.co.uk

 

 

Wales have been having great results with Bovine TB without killing badgers. In fact the number of cattle slaughtered due to bovine TB has nearly halved in just 4 years, from 11,671 in 2009 down to 6,102 in 2013.

 

This has been done by managing cattle not badgers.

 

The methods involved include.

•Annual testing of all cattle throughout Wales .

•Zero tolerance on overdue tests

•Movement restrictions

•DNA tagging of infected animals to ensure the correct animals are sent to slaughter

•Setting up Intensive Action Areas to advise farmers on bio-security and best practice to reduce disease spread and keep disease out of the herd.

 

The opposite approach used in England, based on badger slaughter in individual areas has not worked.

 

So it seems the way forward is educating farmers & stricter controls on cattle movement...etc. as above.

 

If badger setts were also tested & if infected they & the badgers based in it destroyed, it seems a very good job would have been done to help eradicate this disease.

 

Spiral

[pycoed]

Classic!

 

Without the study & if you cant even remember where you read it , how do we know that you didn't misunderstand it or miss some relevant key words & just used it to support your belief? Or that it was just silly stuff funded by

Iliketokillitmakesmefeelhard.co.uk

 

 

Wales have been having great results with Bovine TB without killing badgers. In fact the number of cattle slaughtered due to bovine TB has nearly halved in just 4 years, from 11,671 in 2009 down to 6,102 in 2013.

 

This has been done by managing cattle not badgers.

 

The methods involved include.

•Annual testing of all cattle throughout Wales .

•Zero tolerance on overdue tests

•Movement restrictions

•DNA tagging of infected animals to ensure the correct animals are sent to slaughter

•Setting up Intensive Action Areas to advise farmers on bio-security and best practice to reduce disease spread and keep disease out of the herd.

 

The opposite approach used in England, based on badger slaughter in individual areas has not worked.

 

So it seems the way forward is educating farmers & stricter controls on cattle movement...etc. as above.

 

If badger setts were also tested & if infected they & the badgers based in it destroyed, it seems a very good job would have been done to help eradicate this disease.

 

Spiral

 

Source for the rosy situation described in Wales?

 

Again, the approach used in England was not "badger slaughter in individual areas", in fact across much of the country it was the same as in Wales. In fact the cull trials were badly affected by costly disruptions & proved nothing. Many believe that they were in fact designed to fail from the start.

 

Perhaps you'd like to comment on the Thornbury trial undertaken several years back which did show that removing badgers from the area led to almost complete eradication of TB in cattle?

 

It is a sad comment on the competence of academics & politicians that we still do not know how many badger setts there actually are in the TB areas, let alone that no sett testing has been done. Killing of infected badgers & preservation of the healthy populations (to prevent infected badgers intruding) is the only sensible way forward.

 

I still don't believe we should be spending money (especially money raised from MY taxes) on artificial badger homes. In wales we spent IIRC £250,000 on a dormouse pass near Pontyclun, which has yet to see a mouse & I know for a fact that £78,000 was spent on a bat house in a local hospital, following removal of it's boiler chimney that "might" have housed bats. So far only one owl has used the facility. My neighbour had to pay £1500 for a bat survey before disturbing his roof (the only local bats are pipistrelles & they all seem to live in our roof - I've never seen one in his). This is all part of a gravy train which is costing this country a fortune. Scientists , technicians, admin staff, PR & "the third sector" all with their snouts in the trough, & all paid for by a diminishing private sector. As I said early on: the country's bloody mad.

[Adam M]

Source for the rosy situation described in Wales?

 

Again, the approach used in England was not "badger slaughter in individual areas", in fact across much of the country it was the same as in Wales. In fact the cull trials were badly affected by costly disruptions & proved nothing. Many believe that they were in fact designed to fail from the start.

 

Perhaps you'd like to comment on the Thornbury trial undertaken several years back which did show that removing badgers from the area led to almost complete eradication of TB in cattle?

 

It is a sad comment on the competence of academics & politicians that we still do not know how many badger setts there actually are in the TB areas, let alone that no sett testing has been done. Killing of infected badgers & preservation of the healthy populations (to prevent infected badgers intruding) is the only sensible way forward.

 

I still don't believe we should be spending money (especially money raised from MY taxes) on artificial badger homes. In wales we spent IIRC £250,000 on a dormouse pass near Pontyclun, which has yet to see a mouse & I know for a fact that £78,000 was spent on a bat house in a local hospital, following removal of it's boiler chimney that "might" have housed bats. So far only one owl has used the facility. My neighbour had to pay £1500 for a bat survey before disturbing his roof (the only local bats are pipistrelles & they all seem to live in our roof - I've never seen one in his). This is all part of a gravy train which is costing this country a fortune. Scientists , technicians, admin staff, PR & "the third sector" all with their snouts in the trough, & all paid for by a diminishing private sector. As I said early on: the country's bloody mad.

 

Yet it tends to be the private sector who are the ones charging 1500 for a bat survey and the private sector building the 78k bat houses.

[countrryboy]

The studies i read were focussed purely on hedge hogs as they tend to be a fairly good indicator species as not much else really predates them.

I never mentioned skylarks or anything else.

Surprised u can't find it as u seem to be mind readers

 

Can u not see that having 10-20+ animals all weighing 15-20ish kg all living in the same area and all have to eat to survive. That is a massive ammount of pressure on any ecosystem esp in a small area.Any bird/bee or hedgehog living near a set stands no chance of surviving

 

Until the alleged 'conservationist's' take there head out of the sand and realise that predators eat things and they don't really care if its rare or not.

Was a 'rogue' badger not just caught on spring watch raiding a phenolope's nest.

 

Unless they begin to realise this prety soon there will be no wildlife left in this country.

The RSPB do kill some animals on there reserves are they also only doing that to be hard?? Or because it is needed

 

Conservation in this country is screwed, no common sense and no encouragement for people to improve the habitat esp for rare protected species, to much big stick and not enough carrot.

I am having a similar problem with bats wanting 1500 quid plus vat to tell me no bats in my loft,(roofer is only twice that to strip and reslate the roof).

I was intending to make the surrounding ground a bit of a nature reserve putting up bat boxes volanterly, bloody sure i'm not sticking any up now.

If i ever need to do work on that tree need to get it inspected again, no chance.

 

The nature reserve i'm inolved wih was also looking at reintroducing great crested newts under licence, i've managed to get the commitee to vote against it, restricts all our work on reserve as well as the working forrest next door.

U'd have to be mad to actively encourage any protected species if u still want to work the land. Which is completely wrong

[Rushes]

Classic!

 

Without the study & if you cant even remember where you read it , how do we know that you didn't misunderstand it or miss some relevant key words & just used it to support your belief? Or that it was just silly stuff funded by

Iliketokillitmakesmefeelhard.co.uk

 

 

Wales have been having great results with Bovine TB without killing badgers. In fact the number of cattle slaughtered due to bovine TB has nearly halved in just 4 years, from 11,671 in 2009 down to 6,102 in 2013.

 

This has been done by managing cattle not badgers.

 

The methods involved include.

•Annual testing of all cattle throughout Wales .

•Zero tolerance on overdue tests

•Movement restrictions

•DNA tagging of infected animals to ensure the correct animals are sent to slaughter

•Setting up Intensive Action Areas to advise farmers on bio-security and best practice to reduce disease spread and keep disease out of the herd.

 

The opposite approach used in England, based on badger slaughter in individual areas has not worked.

 

So it seems the way forward is educating farmers & stricter controls on cattle movement...etc. as above.

 

If badger setts were also tested & if infected they & the badgers based in it destroyed, it seems a very good job would have been done to help eradicate this disease.

 

Spiral

 

Wales has a different approach to policing the various acts that apply to badgers. The wildlife and countryside act allow the destruction of animals if it is a welfare issue and the local police are understanding of this.

 

In fairness the behaviour of badgers that are TB infected is significantly different and they tend to stand out. They are also more prone to being roadkill as they are seriously ill, which is part of the reason that road-kill badgers have a very high infection rate of TB 1 in 8 in the west.

 

TB is not an easy disease to kill, it used to be called consumption. It really doesn't matter which animals fault it is, all that can be said is:

It is safe to drink milk [pasteurised]

It is safe to eat beef [tested]

It is not safe to have contact with badgers in areas where TB is endemic

It is unwise to allow domestic pets to have contact with badgers in areas where TB is endemic.

 

In country areas this is dealt with locally, in suburban and urban areas it is a primarily a political issue not a health one and there is no perception of risk and to urban dwellers there is no risk.

 

If you live in a TB area especially if you have children then just take care

[spiral]

Source for the rosy situation described in Wales?

.

 

Of course....

 

How Wales is defeating bovine TB without killing badgers - The Ecologist

 

I agree the countrys mad, but the misspending of money is across the board...in many sectors, managers rather nurses, new buildings, rather than teaching staff not to mention , defense , nps & some of the Aid to abroad scams.... {IMHO}

 

spiral

[kevinjohnsonmbe]

http://www.fwi.co.uk/articles/10/07/2014/145481/campaign-to-oust-paterson-divides-opinion.htm

 

My vote was Paterson for the boot!