Self Rescue

[Dean Lofthouse]

this is my last replyas this seems to be getting personal rather than generic

 

1 how do you think i do not have to be competitive i have to pay all my costs inc insurance kit ect in less days than you and if i was not competitive do you think i would have any work

2 you have the same access to climbers to do govey work i presume as i dont have any

3 At the moment no LA lads round our way does jobs on a weekend for cash

4 Its up to you weather you have any spotty teanager to rescue you i would only want someone that if needed could actually do it

 

It is not intended to be personal, read my last reply again in a non persoanl way.

 

My point is, you have a wage coming in from the LA, you do not rely soley on work obtained by you. I am using you as an example because you replyed to my post.

 

Most of the critism about jobs not being done exactly by the book seems to come from people who work for big companies or work for the LA not from people actually on the front line having to go out and get the work in.

 

From experience I know when I can add on another climber and when I can't, I know when I'm wasting my time quoting or when I'm not.

 

When I can add on a rescue climber, which is most of the time as you well know, I do. But I also know where to draw the line and know where silliness starts to creep in.

 

I would not for example have a rescue climber on Mrs Jones 30ft ash take down. Whereas the job last week in the graveyard on a 70ft lime I had a rescue climber for two days and that was a mewp job !!!

 

What really gets my goat is people telling me that I should have a rescue climber for everything, a risk assemment for trimming conifers and two men whilst chipping

 

Some people need to get a life and wake up to the real world which in my world, if I dont bring home the bacon we dont eat and dont have a roof over our heads

[Mesterh]

We all take short cuts it just depends on what we justify to ourselves as what is acceptable and what isnt imo.

 

If I checked everything that I should on a daily basis to keep up with best practice I wouldnt get out of the yard. It would be time to go home after I had checked all wheel nuts,tyre pressure, tread depth, nuts, bolts, guards, lights, safety stickers, blah blah blah etc etc and thats just the chipper! Never mind the truck,saws,stumpy,ladders,climbing gear, etc.

[David Humphries]

Without being in your or others shoes Dean, I think we can appreciate the sometimes subtle and at other times major differences in approach to Works from our finanancial and logisticaly differing positions.

 

But.......LA and big firms do not TEND to supply the numbers of major Accidents & Fatalities that the smaller outfits do.

This is fact.

 

The 30ft Ash can very easily become a 40/50 ft Ash.

 

Experience as well we all know, can and will lead to complacency.

 

Real World dangers are more oft than not, the same whereever you climb your Trees.

 

 

 

 

.

[Andy Collins]

So, having a buddy to rescue you is the ideal, someone who is a competent climber, quick thinking, rehearsed in all aspects of rescue (not just "got the ticket") is fully trained first aider, competent in all aspects, not just putting on a plaster. Doesnt get flustered in an emergency, capable of giving concise instruction to other staff, delegating the emergency procedures to best effect, organising the paramedics and 999 crews to best effect on arrival. I've met one or two who fit a couple of points, but never ever met someone who is the ultimate rescuer.

I've known fully trained climbers get in a right pickle in a situation that they'd have breezed through in a training environment, but when the chips are down they are simply the last person you need on site. If you need rescuing, at the end of the day, you are your own best hope!

[Frank]

So, having a buddy to rescue you is the ideal, someone who is a competent climber, quick thinking, rehearsed in all aspects of rescue (not just "got the ticket") is fully trained first aider, competent in all aspects, not just putting on a plaster. Doesnt get flustered in an emergency, capable of giving concise instruction to other staff, delegating the emergency procedures to best effect, organising the paramedics and 999 crews to best effect on arrival. I've met one or two who fit a couple of points, but never ever met someone who is the ultimate rescuer.

I've known fully trained climbers get in a right pickle in a situation that they'd have breezed through in a training environment, but when the chips are down they are simply the last person you need on site. If you need rescuing, at the end of the day, you are your own best hope!

 

Thats a very good point. I have been proven as competent to perform aerial rescue. I have even practised since the course I went on, and could still get someone out of a tree. But that person was laughing when I wrapped my legs round them and making daft noises as if being shot in the back, for comedy affect. Their life was in no danger. I am usually the climber, but have been known to give others a chance and done my fair share of groundwork being the "rescuer". I have even got first aid tickets, HOWEVER I nearly faint watching casualty. I hate blood. I have never been in any actual life or death situations.

 

 

AM I COMPETENT ???

[Dean Lofthouse]

I appreciate what you say David and has Andy points out in most situations a rescuer would flap.

 

Accidents very rarely happen against the main stem where people practice rescues.

 

I have done some very awkward tip pruning on very large beech and have thought to myself when I'm balancing on a one and a half inch branch in the top of the crown with my head sticking out the top or side, if this branch snps there's a good chance it will stick into my leg and impale me.

 

There would be no way any climber would be able to use traditional techniques to get you down, if in fact they could get you down. Your only chance would be as Andy says, get yourself down, saw through the branch and drop through the outside of the crown.

 

Believe it or not I am extremely safety concious, some of you may laugh, but I am always planning each and every move, analising where I will go how I will get down and don't if possible leave myself with no self rescue route, I always position my rope so I can lower myself without to much hassle

 

I involve rescue climbers where warranted but NOT on every job, If I'm that incompetent to need a rescue climber every day I 'll become a paper boy or something.

 

I'm a tree surgeon, I'm a big boy and know the risks, If I didn't accept that one day I may die I wouldn't be doing the job

[Andy Collins]

Thats a very good point. I have been proven as competent to perform aerial rescue. I have even practised since the course I went on, and could still get someone out of a tree. But that person was laughing when I wrapped my legs round them and making daft noises as if being shot in the back, for comedy affect. Their life was in no danger. I am usually the climber, but have been known to give others a chance and done my fair share of groundwork being the "rescuer". I have even got first aid tickets, HOWEVER I nearly faint watching casualty. I hate blood. I have never been in any actual life or death situations.

 

 

AM I COMPETENT ???

 

Dunno, I'm now worried, talking to FRANK:001_tongue:

[Tom D]

 

actually, in my unfortunate case (and i wont say what) the fire brigade turned up with mewp, paramedic in basket to rescue me. Fortunately for them i was still concious and had to instruct them how to rescue me by getting the weight off my rope and krabs to get me down in the mewp.

 

3 qualified climbers on ground unable to rescue me.

 

when the sh** hits the fan,.....dial 999

 

How could three climbers not rescue you?

If you could get to where you were why couldn't they?

 

I think like Skyhuck said earlier unless someone is a regular climber then just doing a 1 week course and then going back to your groundy job is pointless. A rescue climber should be as good as the guy he has to rescue.

 

These days I almost never climb without a backup but when I first started I did on occasion, one thing I have noticed is that there are kids coming out of colledge with quals who are pretty useless. I once asked a newly qualified guy to rescue a guy who was working, he was only around 30 foot up and easy to get down, it took him 45mins!!

 

Now having spent nearly 2 years training my second climber I have someone who not only could rescue me but can also do most stuff that I can do, which is priceless. If he keeps improving at this rate he'll be better than me soon:blushing:

[Frank]

Dunno, I'm now worried, talking to FRANK:001_tongue:

 

Dont be worried, its only other peoples blood I dont like. Im fine with my own. In fact I see it on a regular basis. haha.

 

My point is, how do you know how people would react in an emergency situation, its all well and good having competent staff and rescue kit, even a rescue line in the tree, but you never know.

[Dean Lofthouse]

Dont be worried, its only other peoples blood I dont like. Im fine with my own. In fact I see it on a regular basis. haha.

 

My point is, how do you know how people would react in an emergency situation, its all well and good having competent staff and rescue kit, even a rescue line in the tree, but you never know.

 

People flap Frank, I have witnessed it many times.

 

I was recovery vehicle in a convoy behind a lory that went over sideways and crushed two people in a car in germany. We jumped out and got the load of the car, emergency paramedics arrived covered one of the passengers with a tarp and airlifted the second. I went over to the body under the tarp with it's arm sticking out and got hold and checked, there was a pulse.

 

Because the medic was flapping at the horrific injuries he had missed a weak pulse, the so called corpse was still alive.