What effect would scottish independence have on the UK tree industry?

[ArthurBottlesworth]

I walked through London past houses of parliament and to be honest it meant nothing to me, sorry but it doesn't represent me......

 

They have spent so much effort in screwing up democracy in the UK that its pretty well permanently screwed now

 

Has anybody met anyone who thinks Cameron is any good ?

 

Ditto the rest of them ( bar denis skinner who says what he thinks)

 

Bottom line WE DONT LIVE IN A DEMOCRACY .........democrats dont vote for political parties

[Big J]

Nationalists always seem to follow the same line in pursuit of power. First convince the people that there is a problem (or identify a preexisting problem), then find someone to scapegoat it onto.

 

Salmond and the SNP have chosen England and Westminster. The claim geographical and cultural differences are nonsense. The UK is a tiny country and if you have ever met any of the land owners in the Highlands, I can assure you that they are very much represented by Westminster.

 

This is not an issue of nationality, this is an issue of class. Salmond is using Nationalistic politics to fight a class war, one which I think is very dangerous. He is targeting all of his policies at the lower social classes, and that is where he sees the most gains. Socialism indeed.

 

The problem is that the vast majority of Yes voters do not read behind the headlines, and their only reason for voting Yes is one born out of prejudice. The issues that they have in day to day life have got nothing to do with oppression from London. The issues they have are the issues commonly associated with being part of the socio-economic class that they are in, and Independence will only worsen that. Should Salmond achieve a Yes vote, he will simply say that it is unaffordable. Or, worse still, he will jack up the tax rates on the people actually creating the wealth and they'll all leave, resulting in bankrupt Scotland.

 

This is very thin ice which the Nationalists are walking on. There isn't any turning back from this, and if it goes wrong they will only have themselves to blame. I'm optimistic about the outcome though, as I barely know anyone who is a Yes voter. That said, I believe it's a class thing though, and most of the people I know are in white collar jobs.

[daltontrees]

“Democracy must be something more than two wolves and a sheep voting on what to have for dinner.” ― James Bovard

 

Of course no-one really believes the scots are oppressed, I think my original choice of word was suppressed and I was referring to their democratic will.

[wrsni]

I'm optimistic about the outcome though, as I barely know anyone who is a Yes voter.

 

That's a very fair point, there's a lot of Scottish connection on the wifes side of the family and they would definitely be working class.

 

They're dead set against independence, some of them have never voted in their lives and are going to make a point of voting just to say "no".

 

As an aside, plainly Salmond will have to go if the vote goes against independence, or will the rules of what constitutes moral leadership suddenly change then???????

[Big J]

That's a very fair point, there's a lot of Scottish connection on the wifes side of the family and they would definitely be working class.

 

They're dead set against independence, some of them have never voted in their lives and are going to make a point of voting just to say "no".

 

As an aside, plainly Salmond will have to go if the vote goes against independence, or will the rules of what constitutes moral leadership suddenly change then???????

 

There is a definite connection between a person's economic activity and propensity to vote Yes or No in the referendum. My best impression is that most people who are in work and understand the interconnected nature of our national economy can see that separation will not benefit anyone except for Salmond and lawyers.

 

Jonathan

[wrsni]

That's odd, yet again we see a connection between nationalism and socialism.

 

A mate of mine reckons it's as simple as the unemployed having nothing better to do than complain shout and protest while those in work are too busy to worry especially.*

 

He may have a point!

 

*edit* unless of-course you're a politician or union leader* whereby your "job" is to complain shout and protest!

 

*or in Northern Ireland a "community worker"!

Edited February 22, 2014 by wrsni

[felixthelogchopper]

It will be a little worse for you cutters in england, here's why:

 

After a couple of years the scottish government will start to run out of cash, spending will fall, or taxes on the rich will rise. Either way the bread and butter of scottish tree surgeons will take a big hit, i.e. less rich clients as they will have moved away from scotland due to higher taxes, and less government work.

 

The upshot of this will be, companies close to the border like mine and the bigger companies will start chasing english work, I am already looking to expand into NE england. and cutters laid off due to the lack of work in scotland will move south looking for work.

 

This will increase competition for you english guys and drive down prices and wages.

 

commercial treework will die out in Scotland in the event of independence, all trees will be managed by the state, every aspect of life in an independent Scotland will be managed by the state.

 

This will mean all intelligent and freethinking 'pro treeworkers' from Scotland will move to the rest of the UK to escape Salmond's cold water Cuba.

 

 

.

 

Just to liven this part of the debate up, if either of the parties is not a member of the EC then there is no obligation on England to allow an open border to allow Scottish citizens in to work, ie no legal requirement to allow free movement of workers or goods.

[felixthelogchopper]

Connolly has nothing in common with a Scouse shipyard worker or a highland farmer!

Why would he?

 

He did used to work in the shipyards before making it big so I guess that's what he means.

[daltontrees]

Just to liven this part of the debate up, if either of the parties is not a member of the EC then there is no obligation on England to allow an open border to allow Scottish citizens in to work, ie no legal requirement to allow free movement of workers or goods.

 

I don't believe it! Someone wants to debate the effect of scottish independence on the tree industry?

 

If SCotland's no part of europe and has no arrangement with FUK about employment, no-one from Scotland will eb allowed to work in FUK and vice versa without a visa. So scottish trees will be cut by scottish workers and FUK trees by FUK workers. Then if scotland's economy goes horribly wrong the scots tree workers will present themselves at Berwick as asylum seekers and then do all the rubbish jobs in FUK that no-one wants to do there, like branch dragging and chipping and sharpening saws.

[geoff]

Can't see Scotland having a lesser voice than england, Wales or n Ireland, or all together! Great Britain is big in name only!

 

Delusional, reality check in order methinks, if this is the general opinion of the pro independence lot they are in for a shock if they win.