employing someone

[Andrew Reed]

That is partly true, however if they provide a UTR number and you offer the shifts to the subcontractor rather than tell them when they are working and let the subby know they are free to work elsewhere this will keep HMRC happy. In my day job we deploy about 100 staff a week using this method and whilst HMRC would like them all to be PAYE they allow it.

 

If a subby then take care as to what the type of work will be because if anything related to "Construction" e.g. fencing or ground clearance for building works, then the HMRC CIS scheme kicks in which complicates matters further.

[kevinjohnsonmbe]

As I understand it:::

 

When employing 'subcontractors'

 

You've to be careful that your don't become his sole employer..

 

Ie: a self employed person has many bosses and pays his own tax

 

If your giving him/her 3days work a week and he/she has no other work

 

You are then deemed there employer and they technically have full employee rights.

 

Employers lia will cost you around 500-800 on top of your public lia.

 

IMHO.

 

 

 

I know there have been many threads and discussions about the pros/cons and various legalities and HMRC implications of this subject, and not wishing to reopen a well trodden path, but just as an observation to share:

 

I've just had a hair cut. Chatting to the barber, he's worked at this place for 9 years, he supplies his own kit (scissors / comb - not that big a deal!), gets told when to work, gets ½ of the takings for each cut he does and claims to be self employed!

 

Whilst we all thrash ourselves over the subject, it doesn't seem to trouble other industries quite much or maybe that's just one example of a shoddy outfit??

[Paul Jenks]

http://www.confor.org.uk/Upload/Documents/37_ForestryworkersemploymentstatusDec2012.pdf

[kevinjohnsonmbe]

http://www.confor.org.uk/Upload/Documents/37_ForestryworkersemploymentstatusDec2012.pdf

 

 

That's an interesting read! Particularly the part about employers' due diligence checks on contracted staff completing accurate tax returns. There's obviously a problem if, as reported, some are being paid cash, not doing SA and claiming benefits! So is there a definition by case history of what level those checks should be?

 

It's on a very different scale for me, I use additional staff occasionally, they are paid by cheque or BAX after I get their invoice. Accountant has said I should ask them to put UTR on the invoice but I don't feel I have any liability for them completing full and accurate tax returns. I don't have to ask the builder, plumber, publican or shop keeper to give me their UTR when I do a transaction with them.

[Hodge]

This subject is a real grey area, I did employ and won't ever again. Ok some say its how you treat staff but I treated them well or what I thought was well. I use self employed lads now under my direction, I.E. I tell them where to go and what needs doing and they do it. I have one guy who helps me 2-4 days a week and by rights he should be employed but what happens when its slow and there is no work? I can't afford to pay him to do nowt. If I employed him I would have to put my rates up and that would push me over the VAT which is another no go for me.

 

 

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[Steve Bullman]

That's an interesting read! Particularly the part about employers' due diligence checks on contracted staff completing accurate tax returns. There's obviously a problem if, as reported, some are being paid cash, not doing SA and claiming benefits! So is there a definition by case history of what level those checks should be?

 

The details of my tax return are as much of any of my 'employers' business as theirs are mine....I certainly wouldn't be letting anyone other than my accountant look at mine!

[Paul Jenks]

Self-employed subcontractor tax deductions TaxAid

[skyhuck]

This subject is a real grey area, I did employ and won't ever again. Ok some say its how you treat staff but I treated them well or what I thought was well. I use self employed lads now under my direction, I.E. I tell them where to go and what needs doing and they do it. I have one guy who helps me 2-4 days a week and by rights he should be employed but what happens when its slow and there is no work? I can't afford to pay him to do nowt. If I employed him I would have to put my rates up and that would push me over the VAT which is another no go for me.

 

 

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Zero hours contract, I've had a lad working for me as a subie for years, but just put him on the books, much easier than I expected. He's on a zero hours contract, if he works I pay him if he doesn't I don't , he gets less in his hand, it costs me the same except the extra I'll be paying for his holidays, but he was due a raise anyway so he's getting the holidays as a raise.

 

At least I'm no longer worrying that I may get hit for his tax.

[Hodge]

Zero hours contract, I've had a lad working for me as a subie for years, but just put him on the books, much easier than I expected. He's on a zero hours contract, if he works I pay him if he doesn't I don't , he gets less in his hand, it costs me the same except the extra I'll be paying for his holidays, but he was due a raise anyway so he's getting the holidays as a raise.

 

At least I'm no longer worrying that I may get hit for his tax.

 

 

Surely you will have to provide his ppe also?

 

 

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[skyhuck]

Surely you will have to provide his ppe also?

 

 

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A pair of boots and a hat is no big deal.