The economics of running an older harvester and forwarder in a farm forest

[woodworm]

1000-1200 m3 per year, that's between 1 and 2 weeks work with a purpose built machine. There is no way you can justify buying a harvester for that kind of volume, even if you have won the lottery ;-)

It would be far more sensible to get a reliable contractor with a newer more accurate machine to fell it and if you want to extract it yourself, you still could.

Don't mean to offend but I also don't want you to waste your money!

[Melodeon]

No offence taken whatsoever!

 

This kind of realistic feedback is exactly what I need to hear.

 

I haven't won the lottery or anything like that, but the funds ARE (currently!) available for me to kit myself up to do a significant amount of the work myself and if I'm ever going to do it, this is the time to do so.

 

There's more to this than just the raw economics too; I/we've always been pretty self-sufficient down the decades here on the farm, and I think I have some sort of genetic aversion to paying someone to do something I just KNOW I could do myself.

 

As I said, I have my basic chainsaw tickets and I've no doubt I'd get through the 1st thinning well enough if I took it on, but the years continue to pass by and as I get older, the trees get bigger, and there'll come a point at which I can't or don't want to carry on doing that.

A 'harvester' of some sort would keep me occupied cutting trees until my concerned family force me off of it on account of the danger I pose to myself and others.

[County 764]

Might stack up better if you can also do the smaller felling/extraction jobs for neighbouring farmers.

we've got some woodland too that's why I bought the harvester but it really was passed it and getting parts was unreal so it had to go.

 

Working away now with the chainsaw, skidder, 1210 forwarder and an old county with a roof mounted crane.

Might look into hiring in a harvester for some of it as we have approx 4000t this year, but its still mighty tempting when I see a clean looking harvester for sale

[Brushcutter]

Might stack up better if you can also do the smaller felling/extraction jobs for neighbouring farmers.

we've got some woodland too that's why I bought the harvester but it really was passed it and getting parts was unreal so it had to go.

 

Working away now with the chainsaw, skidder, 1210 forwarder and an old county with a roof mounted crane.

Might look into hiring in a harvester for some of it as we have approx 4000t this year, but its still mighty tempting when I see a clean looking harvester for sale

 

There have been some very nice 1270B floating around recently.

[County 764]

Ye I did see the one on ebay for £16500 think the hours weren't to bad, second hand machines aren't as expensive as they use to be

[difflock]

Ye I did see the one on ebay for £16500 think the hours weren't to bad, second hand machines aren't as expensive as they use to be

 

What were the hours?

Which side of 30,000?

Because in relation to 2nd hand tractor prices £16,500.00 is mere "wee buttons"

Though I appreciate the hydraulic and electronic complexities of a harvester make maintenance of an over-age/under-maintained machine quite daunting.

That said modern tractors are probably as bad with electronic/hydraulic complexity.

Was there not a post/thread about a Finnish made tractor 3pt linkage mounted harvester head system.

Surely this concept makes sense for Melodens proposed usuage.

m

[Melodeon]

Was there not a post/thread about a Finnish made tractor 3pt linkage mounted harvester head system.

Surely this concept makes sense for Melodens proposed usuage.

m

 

I'm investigating that route too!

[codlasher]

I went from hand cutting to mechanised cutting in 1998. I worked on a four of five year cycle, sometimes having to do the work over two winters with a break of four/five years in between. I used Euroforest or Tillhill for the machinery but sometimes brought in my elderly tractor/trailer forwarded to assist extracting. They organised the sales but I kept the firewood for our local merchant and just paid for that to be extracted. Hiding these stacks from the faeries!

My biggest complaint was the London shooting syndicate as the machinery disturbed the birds! Sitting in the cab with the driver discussing the next stand with the birds investigating the wheels of the harvester! The shoot simply didn't like change or someone else in 'their' woodland.

 

Having had the most up to date machinery and some of the most experiences lowland forestry operators working along-side my little operation, I can honestly say that buying a knackered old machine and trying to make a good job of either; 1) Making any money or enough to pay, just to keep said machine running in a fit and proper fashion and 2) Producing the tonnage & this up to the quite tight specs that are actually saleable to the mills.

I really think you'd be better standing in a very cold shower tearing up £50.00 notes.

Try looking yourself in the eye when you have just dumped another two drums of hydraulic oil all over the forest floor, for the third time this week!:thumb down:

 

There are other good operators/set ups out there and I'd be looking to them for the scale that you are talking about. This will result in smiles all round.

 

Personally I'd make sure that the extraction from the stands to the wagons is all down hill (realistically and metaphorically) and that the loading bays for said wagons are top spec and easy to access so your turnaround is as slick as you can make it. If you have this end working properly you will get your team working well and the money in your bank quickly!

codlasher

Edited January 15, 2014 by codlasher
Addendm

[braco]

We were in the same situation, older, purpose built harvesters looked cheap but reliability of these machines was always going to be an issue, a new machine is bad enough to up keep! Next option was a 360 excavator set up, this was expensive and still required another outfit for forwarding, luckily David ridings valmet 8400 tractor with botex roof mount and keto head outfit appeared and I have never looked back, harvest for a few days, then throw the head off, grab and trailer on and away you go forwarding, all with the same base unit. Within days, I had contract work coming out my ears to justify buying the machine. Mobilty, low ground pressure and low running costs, couldn't ask for more once the stability issue was over come, still learning!!

[woodworm]

I went from hand cutting to mechanised cutting in 1998. I worked on a four of five year cycle, sometimes having to do the work over two winters with a break of four/five years in between. I used Euroforest or Tillhill for the machinery but sometimes brought in my elderly tractor/trailer forwarded to assist extracting. They organised the sales but I kept the firewood for our local merchant and just paid for that to be extracted. Hiding these stacks from the faeries!

My biggest complaint was the London shooting syndicate as the machinery disturbed the birds! Sitting in the cab with the driver discussing the next stand with the birds investigating the wheels of the harvester! The shoot simply didn't like change or someone else in 'their' woodland.

 

Having had the most up to date machinery and some of the most experiences lowland forestry operators working along-side my little operation, I can honestly say that buying a knackered old machine and trying to make a good job of either; 1) Making any money or enough to pay, just to keep said machine running in a fit and proper fashion and 2) Producing the tonnage & this up to the quite tight specs that are actually saleable to the mills.

I really think you'd be better standing in a very cold shower tearing up £50.00 notes.

Try looking yourself in the eye when you have just dumped another two drums of hydraulic oil all over the forest floor, for the third time this week!:thumb down:

 

There are other good operators/set ups out there and I'd be looking to them for the scale that you are talking about. This will result in smiles all round.

 

Personally I'd make sure that the extraction from the stands to the wagons is all down hill (realistically and metaphorically) and that the loading bays for said wagons are top spec and easy to access so your turnaround is as slick as you can make it. If you have this end working properly you will get your team working well and the money in your bank quickly!

codlasher

 

What he said !!

Believe me, I am machinery mad, but having driven harvesters for 6 years now, (the current one brand new new last year,) I wouldn't buy one even if I had 15000m3/year to cut, and defo not at the prices you are looking at. The harvester that was traded in when I got the new one last year was only 4 years old, and in the last month before it went, we put 2 new feed wheel motors and a 205 litre drum of oil in it, and it was only 4 years old, (that alone probably cost £3500-£4000. The one before that was only 3 1/2 years old when it went away on the low loader and within 72 hours the wiring loom caught fire and the new owners had a bill for almost £2k to put it right before they had hardly felled a tree. These costs would be better put towards utilising a reliable contractor with good new reliable kit. If you are unhappy that they might take the wrong trees or too many trees, get out there with a can of marker spray and mark the trees to come out, but please dont give yourself a major headache and an empty bank account for the sake of 1200m3/year, its really not worth it.

The problem with a tractor based outfit is that it wont deal with the trees once they get larger, ie over 350mm, and they are not anywhere near as stable or strong as purpose built.

Woodworm