Employing untrained staff

[Pete Hart]

Someone can have a thousand 'tickets' and still be useless. Experience is worth a lot and it is sorely undervalued in today's world of work.

 

As I have witnessed many times before.

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Colleges are businesses and bums on seat and pass rates are the number goal.

Some shocking decisions to pass people have been seen with my very own eyes. And some shocking work carried out by people telling me they are 'fully qualified' whatever that is?!!

 

Even one of my best mates who works for a countryside college as an instructor says its all to pot and standards are almost non existent.

 

Sorry rambling rant over! In need a cup of tea and a bacon Sanger!!!

 

 

 

http://www.aatreesurgeon.co.uk

[LGP Eddie]

A very interesting post as I too am considering taking on someone possibly 3 days a week to start with to try to find the right person first, but if I can find a suitable candidate they'll get to go on the whole range from a Saw to the Tracked Dumper, Excavator with attachments, Tractor., Chipper etc.

 

On the Excavator side I would simply train them myself off site to a basic standard and then have a local instructor cover them with an 'In house' ticket.

 

My Insurance company would accept this and so would my clients. If the worst were to happen there would be evidence of training all the way back down the line and the buck would stop at the Trainer in the dock. He would have all his evidence as at qualified training provider, which is all that is required not which scheme it happens to be?

 

I can't see why you can't use this route for a guy on a saw? Ask your insurance company if he can be trained under direct supervision off site and then fully covered if 'In House' training has been done by a recognised provider?

 

I aim to send any candidate with a friend who supplies me with Hand Cutters to really see if they have what it takes, so it'll be interesting to see how he would want to play it regarding tickets?

 

Surely there are Trainers who will do a straightforward assessment using all the current guidelines and provide a certificate to prove this outside the current 'schemes' at reduced cost?

The onus is to provide evidence of training, not bragging about which letters and numbers you've got on a ticket?

 

I've witnessed so called Plant Operators with more tickets than a raffle who can seriously only come under the 'Seat Filler' category?

 

In my own instance the 'In House' ticket would simply to get any prospective candidate up and running to see if they may last the distance.

Taking them then on through the industry recognised schemes as they progress, balancing the cost against their performance and value they bring to the business?

 

A lot to think about, but I'd really like to go down this route and get someone up to speed.

 

Eddie.

[doobin]

I've witnessed so called Plant Operators with more tickets than a raffle

 

Love it!

 

As I understand it, the issue is that there is specific legislation covering chainsaws, and CS units are the only accepted qualification. Although there is an exemption for agricultural work on the land of the owner.

[Bren.]

Wouldn't have anyone on a job without relevant tickets. No one gets to use any machinery without tickets, be that chainsaw, chipper, atv, brushcutter etc.

If I find you working without PPE you're gone, if I find you doing anything stupid, you're gone, if I find you using machinery without a ticket, you're gone.

I simply can't afford to give my insurance company an excuse not to pay out in the event of an accident.

[LGP Eddie]

Love it!

 

As I understand it, the issue is that there is specific legislation covering chainsaws, and CS units are the only accepted qualification. Although there is an exemption for agricultural work on the land of the owner.

 

Yes I think this is the main point really?

 

Is the CS unit the only actual proven qualification under 'Legislation', or is it the case a little like the Construction CPCS scheme where they use a little smoke and mirrors to fool people into thinking this?

 

The Law bit only actually comes in the CPCS instance from your Insurance or Clients (preventing you from working) actually enforce you requiring CPCS training.

 

In the event of the worst happening the onus is on providing "Evidence of Training' and a CPCS card does this easily? However a suitable 'In house' ticket from a reputable provider who would have to provide evidence of his own ability to provide such training would be perfectly acceptable.

 

As I say I don't know if there is an actual law that states 'It must be a CS unit?' but I would very much doubt it because it then in reality makes the CS units a Government Scheme a little like a Driving Licence?

 

I would expect it again to be 'Evidence of Formal Training'?

 

A very interesting point and something as I say I wouldn't get involved in with a prospective candidate, but it could simply things for the guy who will be taking him from me for the Saw side of things?

 

However all said and done I'd like to see anything like this used just to help reduce costs whilst suitable candidates are weeded out, before being taken through all the Industry Standard qualifications at a suitable point once it"s established they are worth investing in?

 

It's always an awkward point, who pays for tickets, how do you stop people walking away straight after doing them etc etc, and perhaps it's a barrier as to why more younger people are not given a basic level foot in the door opportunity?

 

Eddie.

[LGP Eddie]

I had to investigate a little further and I possibly guessed right in that the HSE's own guide clearly states it has to be a 'Relevant Certificate of Competence or National Competence Award'?

 

Pretty much as I thought really? If a decent provider is willing to give you an 'In House' ticket with full backing and you have evidence of their ability to train/assess then there should be no issue providing your Insurance company and possibly Client are happy with the arrangement?

 

How else can the monopoly of these Card Schemes be kept in check?

 

I'm no expert and don't get thinking you can get the John Bull printing press out and start making money fast!

I always work things back from the dock of an Inquest in my mind as this is the worst case Scenario?

When asked to provide evidence of training an 'In House' ticket and the evidence I had of the trainers qualification would do this, thus putting the said 'Trainer' in the dock to see how he got to be a Trainer in the first place?

 

I'm not anti Card Schemes or Training in any way, just anti profiteering and goalpost moving just as things go quiet to create a bit more work and put everyone back on the merry go round again?

Also no card whatsoever can provide evidence of experience?

 

Eddie.

[martin p]

As a plant operator of over 20yrs,I agree with eddie wholeheartedly regarding the monopoly and profiteering of certain card schemes.

For years I held cards for excavator 360deg and excavator 180deg.

Now I need excavator360 below 10 tonne,above 10 tonne tracked.

excavator 360 above and below 10 tonne wheeled,

excavator 180 above and below 5 tonnes.

All this needs to be renewed every 5years with proof of 300 hrs operating per category

Now to add to all this I need all the above with "lifting operations"!!!

 

I always am of the belief that you cannot teach or buy experience.