Competent Splicer?

[Cleetus]

Hello all

 

I do alot of splicing, proberly now close 2500 if my records are correct. My splices have been tested on a registered test machine and all recorded for many diffrent brands and diameters. But does that make me competent. I have also been tested by New england and Yale in years gone by, but now they don't seem in terested.

 

It really annoyes me when people slam a custom splice that has actually been made with pride. Yale finish their eyes on a machine as many of you know, but they havn't always spliced like that, look at the title page to the arborist section you will see the two ropes in the picture are hand spliced.

 

Are machine splices stronger than hand spliced ropes? They are a diffrent method of splicing.

 

I would hit the roof if a LOLER inspector failed one of my splices because it wasn't spliced by a redneck(ignore my avitor) in a sweat shop!!!!!!!

 

thats my rant

 

cheers all:001_smile:

[educated arborist]

some very good points, especially on machine splices been discussed many times before off of the forum.

The point made about a governing body on splice compitence:

who would it be made up of?

who would fund it?

some of the problems at present are:

some splice testing is inconclusive/voided as the rope will aften fail at the other end of the rid before the desired load is reached

Some manufacturors Y*** ahem don't seem to want to make it impractical/too expensive for british hand splicers to become Yale certified riggers. they even ran some poxy notice in an AA newsletter (from memory may have been a similar publication) Insisting that there are no approved yale riggers in the uk & that its machiened splices are made to the highest standards

I would personally dispute this as, i assume would cletus & many other splicers I know would & have disagreed with this.

In theory a correctly fasioned hand splice is, if anything stronger than a machine splice as it is not as far along its cycle to failure.there are many other benifits to hand splices but i realy have 2 go 2 bed.

A body of assesors is great in theory but very hard to implicate/ fund

Allthough i don't believe any1 in the UK has done yet some splicers in europe have been assesed & can assign CE marks to their splices, i know little about this but i have been told that the system of assesment is sooo expensive & time consuming that it is unworkable & beond un-economical.

If a group of compitant uk splicers were to lobby together they could prehaps use their combined knowlege, experiance & contacts to draw up a standard to which & by which splicers should be assesed, name themselves, & then try to lobby manufacturers & insurors to recognise them & their scheme.

 

discuss

Edited February 24, 2009 by educated arborist
m

[High Scale]

Yes, I think that is what Nod is trying to achieve?

[Ironman]

So if you get your climbing line hand spliced does anyone know how that effect the CE cert? Is it still covered and if we are all going to splice our own kit how can a LOLER ispector know whats good and bad ? I thought they needed tracable evidence of testing etc? Fk em I ain't going to pay for all my kit to be tested by anyone if they are gonna cut all my splices off !

[bob]

i would speak to your friendly loler inspector and see what his views are

I believe there will be those that do and those that don,t

[educated arborist]

If your loler inspector can't definitivly identify wheather or not a splice is fit for purpose be it hand made or not you should think about changing your inspector. A compitant inspector should be able to identify safe kit without in-depth traceable records allthough they are preferable they are not a 'must' for loler inspection.

If your looking for an inspector who knows what he's doing & won't cut off correctly fassioned splices check out the trede directory page (top right of page) for the national service provided by loleruk or ring 07835029923 & speak to mike.

Edited February 25, 2009 by educated arborist

[stuartc44]

Slightly different look on things, but have now tried splicing 16 strand. The first attempt was tested to destruction by tying a bowline in the other end and pulling between two vehicles (the knot broke). When a bowline is tied in your rope are you seen as competent knot tyer by holding CS38, if so is the splice also adequate, fit for purpose. Sorry if butting in / not making sense have had one or two l**gers, (not splicing at the moment!).

[ArbjobsNick]

It is my understanding that LOLER inspectors should require that ropes used for PPE are marked up correctly now our industries best practice requires ropes to meet EN1891 and as such any rope used should be marked up as such in that it has been tested and meets the European standards required to keep you safe at work.

 

With regard to splicing organisations or ombudsman for the UK, do we need one? Several forward thinking European hand splicer’s (see list below) have already invested some time and money and had their hand splices officially tested by SATRA to ensure they meet the European standard and can as a result now sell their ropes bearing a CE number assuring the quality of their product.

 

(Germany) Freeworker

Drayer (Germany) DRAYER Fachhandel für Baumpflege und Seiltechnik

Poel (Holland) Welkom bij Poel Bosbouwartikelen Apeldoorn - Home

 

Now there are several very competent hand splicer in the UK you have to wonder why none of them just taken the bull by the horns and followed suit?

 

It worries me that LOLER inspectors are getting no official guidance on what is or is not acceptable from any other official source having got your LOLER ticket to inspect folks kit you and your liability are pretty much on your own to pass or fail kit as you see fit. I can only wish you the best of luck.

 

In reference to the CE of any hand spliced rope if you take a rope with a CE and apply a hand splice you have to cut and remove some fibres. Now the engineering of this "if done correctly" may be sound ( it has to be as several people have had them CE’d) None the less you are deviating a product in doing so you are changing the construction of that item. The manufacturers CE is therefore no longer valid.

 

It's simple non CE marked hand splices are no longer a CE marked item and if you supply a non CE marked item to a member of staff and that member of staff has an accident you (and your LOLER inspector) could be spending a lot of money in court trying to justify the cost saving of your purchase.

 

Don’t just take my word for it give your employee liability underwriter a call see how he feels about your insurance.

 

GREED ARROGANCE AND IGNORANCE WILL NOT KEEP YOU SAFE

Edited April 9, 2010 by ArbjobsNick

[Albedo]

I dangle from my own splices, An end to end on my prusic and an eye on me snaphook on me strop. Its all LOLER'd. (sometimes). Wouldn't have it any other way, meaning if they wouldn't LOLER it, I'd still climb on it.

[john dawson]

well my head is now spinnin from the posts, so this is goin to be short!!

 

iv done a few splices with varying results, ive also been on two of Nods courses, simply to understand the splice more than anything else.

 

i can now tell the new blaze rope my boss has bought from ***** **** is technically unusable due to the hand splice, if it had a factory splice it would be fine.

im not fussed cus i now know the technicalities behind the constructions, either splice shouldnt be different.

ive now been "asked" to cut a knackered rope, re-splice and re-lable to meet a loler standard.

the book says "no no no no no" (think the churchill dog)

 

common sense and knowledge says "oh yes!"

 

so which is right? maybe too much knowledge is dangerous?