Register of Tree Work Operatives

[Andy Clark]

Thinking along the training lines, without wishing to derail this thread too much, how many more trainers are needed? My local college has several, they have been there around five years a piece, they are relatively young so will not be retiring any time soon. So these vacancies will simply not arise, for the foreseeable future. The industry in inundated, or flooded, with new fresh faced college leavers, every term, how many more trainers are needed anyway, if there are so few jobs for the trainees to go onto?

I'm deliberately thinking up obstacles here. I am not cutout to be a trainer, I don't the patience and tolerance. I don't want to stand around "supervising" or pushing paper around a desk to meet that latest criteria for this and that membership.

One thing I do think this trade does need is Mentors, on the job common sense instruction in real world environments, people who think around the problems that can be thrown in the face of the oherwise inexperienced. Do most businesses have the space for this? I think they already do have this person, generally. So do we need to "badge" him/her? Is a new qualification needed to say that this person meets this kind of criteria? If you run a small business, you already have your trusted side kick/ foreman, you don't need him to be certificated as such. He may need the piece of paper more than you need him to have it, for his future.

So IMO it needs to be readily affordable for an employer to pay for it, not another one of these tickets that take 5 days of sitting through monotonous repetition, but maybe a presentation of NPTC units, other CPD that may have been acquired, and references of his abilities in a Senior Arb Techie role out on site. Sorry for the ramble.

 

 

Andy, the way to look at this is from the perspective of that level playing field.

 

If we, as an industry, are all singing from the same hymn sheet, then the same oppourtunities exist for everyone.

 

As an example, i'm nowadays in a position of employing contractors. Within the local authourity aspect, how do i do so, whilst still being "fair"?

 

By keeping it simple and not looking for the bells and whistles.

 

I have no interest in AA approval or whether you hold SAFE Contractor or CHAS accreditation, all i care about is that you do a good job and don't get me sued.

 

The only way i can do that is by ensure that my employment criteria is designed to make sure you, and your staff, are qualified to do the job you do, that you hold the relevant level of H&S policies and practices, and are insured to the relevant level.

 

The upshot of that is that then Joe Bloggs Tree Work and his two gangs of merry men, stand with an equal chance as winning the work as the big boys.

 

 

And thus the benefits roll in.....

[treequip]

I am new to the forum so be gentle!

 

The idea is have a register operated by the industry for the industry. We have been careful to make sure that we avoid vested interests from any one of the main industry organisations be they membership, awarding or commercial. In essence the register will try to get us away from a 'ticket culture' towards something which is more representative of the skills and experience operatives have.

 

For those who are not interested in stepwise progression that is fine, they should still find a place on the register where they can sit and at least be acknowledged for their 'competency' based on experience, time served and training/quals.

 

We won't fix this overnight and we will never fix it if we don't try.

 

Tony, what part of this alliance are you?

 

I am interested to know what it is that you all think is broken and how this list will fix whatever it is?

 

I am also keen to know how this scheme be funded, what will it cost me and what will I get for my money.

[jaime bray]

Tony, what part of this alliance are you?

 

I am interested to know what it is that you all think is broken and how this list will fix whatever it is?

 

I am also keen to know how this scheme be funded, what will it cost me and what will I get for my money.

 

Tony is the proprieter/director/dogs body etc for AM Lane as listed at the bottom of the invitation letter on the OP.

 

It is intended that the scheme will fund itself. As with most things if it isnt sustainable it will not survive.

[Andy Clark]

I am interested to know what it is that you all think is broken and how this list will fix whatever it is?

 

QUOTE]

 

Look at it the other way - is the industry as good as it can be?

 

Considering the amount of posts across these hallowed pages of Arbtalk that contain moans, gripes, grumbles etc about all the different facets of the industry, I'll galdly wager hard solid cash that the answer'll be "No".

 

And as long as that is the case, then there will always be room for change/improvement.

 

This is a GOOD thing, and if the chaps involved can pull it off and learn from the mistakes of those who came before, then it does have the facility to totally change the face of Uk Arb for the better.

 

 

[AA Teccie (Paul)]

Or perhaps the AA can employ them!!

 

 

Chris Coombs

 

Chris, are you saying I'm "past my sell by date" ...you're absolutely right, albeit one with hopefully something still to offer

 

It does raise another very importnat issue which this process is seeking to highliight, i.e. 'currency', are your (practical) skills current and up-to-date?...mine certainly aren't BUT I'm not seeking practical employment so it's not an issue.

 

Cheers..

Paul

[Andy Clark]

Chris, are you saying I'm "past my sell by date" ...you're absolutely right, albeit one with hopefully something still to offer

 

It does raise another very importnat issue which this process is seeking to highliight, i.e. 'currency', are your (practical) skills current and up-to-date?...mine certainly aren't BUT I'm not seeking practical employment so it's not an issue.

 

Cheers..

Paul

 

Paul,

 

I'm sure it will come up at next weeks presentation, but what's the AA standpoint on this in respect of the AAAC?

[AA Teccie (Paul)]

Paul,

 

I'm sure it will come up at next weeks presentation, but what's the AA standpoint on this in respect of the AAAC?

 

Hi Andy, are you talking about me being 'past my sell by date?'

 

I see the R2 / PSF being part of the 'nuts and bolts' contributing to AAAC/ArbAC. It will serve to formalise what we see on site, most of the time, and allow individuals to benchmark their position in the industry using a recognised, and accepted, framework.

 

I firmly believe this is all part of the industry moving forward and professionalising.

 

Cheers..

Paul

[Minotaur]

@ Paul, nothing personal there just meant in jest again the organising committee!

 

I honestly can't understand why anyone thinks its a good idea to create anything that is going to increase the cost, particularly to the majority of us one man/small operators.

 

Then you have the question of skills base, what about the guy who has 10, 15, 20 years experience but no tickets except his 30/31? PLenty people out there have never taken an NPTC ticket for chipper, brushcutter/polesaw, reductions, rigging, etc, etc. Yet you seem to indicate that everyone would have to qualify for a level playing field!

Its never going to happen - how many chaps on here would be willing to spend their hard earned cash to get a 'brushcutter/polesaw' ticket, or a chipper ticket?

If this were to be brought in, who confirms/assesses what we are doing? Our peers? If so who is going to pay them to come and assess us? Most people aren't trained to assess others, so there will be no 'standard'. Any person /company can claim to be unfairly/harshly treated, or someone can do another a favour - you scratch my back etc!

 

Self funding - so this is funded by more money that we have to pay, to gain a tick in the box, to prove that we can, or are able to do, what we are currently doing.

 

I think this whole thing is going too far, it should maybe be roled out for bigger companies: Utility Arb Co.s, larger Forestry Co's, and Contractors llike Glendale etc.

 

Why is it that there are private entities/companies on the 'R2 steering group'? If this is going to be fair level then thee should be no companies or private individuals involved,

[treequip]

Tony is the proprieter/director/dogs body etc for AM Lane as listed at the bottom of the invitation letter on the OP.

 

It is intended that the scheme will fund itself. As with most things if it isnt sustainable it will not survive.

 

Clearly but where will it get the money from

[Yorkshireman]

Hello All a very interesting thread indeed

 

a concept that has in intention much merit,,

 

As a lowly business owner , employer, contractor, consultant , assessor & a multitude of other hats ,

 

I can see this from many aspects

 

Will it work ?

 

if in its creation / management it sets Glass ceilings

 

if it doesnt promote & aid advancement

 

if it doesnt recognise the skills . life experience i.e. Prior accredited learning

 

if it is eleatist

 

if it precludes those who cant afford it

 

if the rank & file dont believe in it

 

if the industry dont support it [ by this I dont mean those in Ivory towers ]

 

If companys can recruit staff without it ?

 

If companys do recriut based on it , can we claim againest the findings of the scheme ?

 

if someone looses their job , does their industry clock time pause or stop only to re start anew in order for them to meet the time frames to advance on timeline in industry ?

 

the client employing the companies who are employing the individuals dont care

 

if there are too Many chefs in that line up

 

if we the industry devide into 2 clear sectors being those who can engage via sufficent income streams based on client support & profit

and those who can't for the same factors then what ?

 

Often We the industry are only as good as the money in the bank & personal company time will allow .. despite every aspiration to perhaps be more

 

 

points to ponder perhaps

 

I wish well to any initiative which increases our industry perspective and awareness

as this is a good thing..

 

IAIN

Edited January 22, 2013 by Yorkshireman