Insuring contractors and subcontractors?

[sloth]

Advice from insurance industry requsted please:

 

It seems there is confusion from others and most certainly myself as to when it is necesasary to have employers liabilty, also public liabilty, insurance when using contractors, subcontractors or bona fide subcontractors.

If say I was to contract someone to do work through my company using all their own tools, staff, etc, they are given a price to do a task, and they do it in their own way in their own time (this makes them bonfide subcontractors, correct?) do I require employers liabilty? Or do the insurance requirements for the work they are doing lie with them?

Any explanation as to what is required of who and in what circumstances would be greatly recieved.

 

Many thanks.

[Arborisk Team]

Hi Sloth

 

We've been discussing your question here & we feel it is just too complex an area to give you a general answer. Each case tends to vary.

 

We can give you a call to find put abit more about your situation and we would be happy to advise you then.

 

PM me your number, or alternatively you can call us - 0113 259 3560 - we'd be happy to help.

 

Thanks

Jessica

[TrustInsurance]

Hi Sloth.

 

In the example you give, you would not require, nor be able to obtain, employers liability insurance for the sub-contractor as they are working under their own direction and control, with thier own tools. However, to be a bona fide sub-contractor, they would have their own insurance in force.

 

The insurance responsability for the work they are doing would lie with them, however as the main conctractor you should ensure that they have relevant insurance (public liability) in force, in their name. If the sub-contractor also has employees or labour only subcontractors themselves, you should also ensure that they have employers liability insurance too.

 

As you would be declared as the main contractor, any 3rd party property damage or injury claim, would be directed to you/your insurer and the claim made against you initially.

Your insurer would then pursue the insurers of the bona fide sub-contractor's to settle the claim.

 

If you are insured with us, and if for any reason the bona fide sub-contractor's policy did not indemnify (cover) a loss fully, we would provide the shortfall in indemnity, subject to you being able to provide proof that you had obtained a copy of the contractors insurance documents prior to the appointment.

 

If you have any further questions please feel free to contact us.

 

Trust Insurance

[likeitorlumpit]

Thought I understood how this worked but now I'm confused.

Sounds like you are saying we can't bring in a freelance climber unless they have their own insurance even though they would be covered by ours should theirs be insufficient. That sounds like the insurers are getting 2 bites of the cherry. Two lots of premiums for one claim.

[TrustInsurance]

Sorry that is changing the question as you are not classing the climber as a BFSC. If you are hiring the climber in as a LOSC then you would be required to have employers liability as he/she is an employee for the day. They would also be classed as an employee for the day if they are under you direction and control!

[PhilBeech]

What if LOSC are in for cumulative days on one site but aren't under direct control of you day in day out? You only give them instruction as and when necessary.

[Jesse]

Hi Sloth

 

We've been discussing your question here & we feel it is just too complex an area to give you a general answer. Each case tends to vary.

 

We can give you a call to find put abit more about your situation and we would be happy to advise you then.

 

PM me your number, or alternatively you can call us - 0113 259 3560 - we'd be happy to help.

 

Thanks

Jessica

Just re insured with you chaps and thanks very much, you offered the best comprehensive deal, and at a great price, I wonder how many Arb members do actually have insurances in place with an understanding that if you don't have qualifications you are unlikely to get cover!!!! this is also why there is such a great divide between quotations , you FREE SPIRITS out there are destroying the reputation of the industry.

[Jesse]

Just re insured with you chaps and thanks very much, you offered the best comprehensive deal, and at a great price, I wonder how many Arb members do actually have insurances in place with an understanding that if you don't have qualifications you are unlikely to get cover!!!! this is also why there is such a great divide between quotations , you FREE SPIRITS out there are destroying the reputation of the industry.

 

Sorry just re read and to clarify , thanks Arborisk , and my displeasure is pointed to those individuals who operate on a wing and a prayer.And just hope the s**t never hits the pan.

[likeitorlumpit]

Sorry that is changing the question as you are not classing the climber as a BFSC. If you are hiring the climber in as a LOSC then you would be required to have employers liability as he/she is an employee for the day. They would also be classed as an employee for the day if they are under you direction and control!

 

Thats how I see it then

Employee for the day- subject to the usual employee regulation. Glad you sorted this out as anything insurance wise makes me nervous. I wouldn't like things to go wrong and not be covered. I guess the smallprint needs another read though. Insurance is there to calm us but recently I get the feeling the insurers have upped the clauses and these often catch the unwary or those who choose insurance based on cost alone.

[Tom D]

Its is always neccesary to have employers liability unless you are a contract climber and you are the subby.

 

I am surprised an insurance company says otherwise, probably they are referring to contract climbers.

 

In order to officially be classed as a subby you must work un supervised using your own tools and equipment, i.e. you turn up on site and someone says "its that one" and points to a tree, from then on you go to work without the main contractor.

 

If the contractor and subby work together, i.e. as a groundy and climber then one is the employer of the other. This is regardless of how the "subby" is paid. I often employ self employed workers, they work along side our PAYE staff and invoice me when they are done, they are not subbys though in the official sense of the word, and they are covered by my EL policy.

 

if you read the terms of your insurance there will probably be a clause about your duty of care when taking on subbys, i.e. you should check that the subby has his own insurance and ask for a copy of the certificate.