Clearly i dont have a clue about forestry or arboriculture, but...

[Kennedy]

You're right and I totally agree with it but on the other hand it has to be handled with care so as not to take work away from others. Picking and choosing what is right is the hard bit.

[Ganit]

Hi again, and thank you all for your comments, as i said in the OP, someone who saw my vid on youtube suggested i might post it here. Im not seeking kind words or sympathy, or even donations, but thanks for the offer Kennedy.

 

A little context perhaps, i made the videos quite a while ago now, right at the start of workfare. At that time, Working Links didnt have anyone who could do a work placement in Wigtownshire, they probably still dont. The alternative was to sit in their office for 8 hours a day pretending to do job interviews or endlessly going over old ground in one way or another.

 

What annoyed me about this was that not only would they be wasting my time, but they also get a bonus for carrying out this mickey mouse training.

 

My response was to ask around and through one person then another i ended up talking to the owner of a large forestry estate who decided he could use my labour and provide me with some training into the bargain.

 

The initial idea was that i would do some dyking and some fencing, but in the end he decided he would rather i bashed trees for four weeks. He paid for insurance and because of this i decided to honour my side of the bargain despite feeling a bit peeved at this so called opportunity.

 

PPE suitable for the job at hand is a legal requirement on any placement, as is a high vis pair of trousers and waterproof jacket. I dont make these rules.

All i actually asked for was wellies, bib an brace since the bracken was 5 foot deep soaking constantly and heaving with ticks. I dont think this is especially unreasonable.

 

Your concerns regarding PPE, equipment, lone working have some legitimacy, but this should be discussed as feedback to the service provider, don't go bleating to your MP about it. Thats pointless IMO

 

Troughing politicians aside, i did take this up with Working Links, but they just refused to accept that they should provide PPE. My personal feelings on it are that they disliked the fact i had found a placement and they had been cheated out of an extra earner in providing the placement themselves.

 

Faced with their complete stonewall i had no other option but to ask my local MP for his help.

 

Don't think it is out of order Ian. The scheme is aimed at people who in some way show that there not wanting or not willing to work.

 

Gnarlyoak, surely if everything is taken into account he's making more than min wage???

 

I am surprised there was just you.

surely they could of found you a co worker.

I would of thought wellies and safety glasses could of been provided.

So what happens now do you just carry on on the dole or are you somewhere else.

So how much do you get on benefits ish not been nosey just wondered.

At least you can afford to run a car and insure it well i hope it,s insured:thumbup:

do you fancy a full time job doing similar or has it put you off?

 

How much was i on?, at that point the dole was £65 a week, (i dont claim rent). On top of my basic dole of £65 i also got a travel allowance of £15 a week. That was my entire income for the four weeks i was on this placement.

 

I live on the west coast of The Machars and had to travel to Creetown for the job, this is a 30 mile trip each way (i know i said 30 miles all in in the film, but i was tired i expect). Initially i drove until the stones on the tracks ruptured my fuel line and caused e to have to get the bus (an extra 4 hours a day). Not to mention that depending on which bit of the estate i was on id have a 4-5 mile walk from Creetown to get to my work.

 

I dont mind admitting that the whole experience was really exhausting, food was genuinely an issue, with all the added walking and travel time when i was on the bus i was struggling even to have time to make sarnies the night before never mind walk my lurchers when i get home.

 

I did all this because i was genuinely showing willing, despite the fact that the owner told me he valued my work at £12 a day (not that he paid me this) not once during or after did he check or asses the work.

 

Since then ive been on the dole, then off the dole, then on the dole, then off the dole. Im 45, i live in a pretty deprived rural area (unless your a farmer or landowner). Work is scarce and locals under 30 get most jobs. I do what i can.

 

And Bob, yes, i am interested in doing more forestry labouring, as i said im 45 moderately fit, have a full driving license, use a chain saw regularly, have absolutely no training or certificates of any kind, happy to go to The Barony at my own expense if it will get me anywhere. Where are you based?

 

So what this work thing all about?

 

I've never heard of mandatory thing before? But them I'm down south and we might not have this.

 

I don't know, someone shed some light on this. Sorry if I sound stupid. Is it like community service for the unemployed?

 

Absolutely correct Rich, despite the fact that this is touted as retraining/opportunity/try-out etc its all lies, its just a huge cash cow of tax payers money going to company's who tick boxes, create impressions, fake outcomes and polish their arses. Both of the two main companies involved are being investigated for systematic fraud

 

Despite what you hear on the news, or read in right wing rags like the mail or suchlike, most claimants are doing what they can. What is really scandalous is that rather than invest the money in real vocational training for the non intellectual elites like they used to years ago, they now give all those millions to private companies who help the government fiddle the unemployment figures, One of these companies, Tomorrows people is run by Tories connected with the Conservative government.

 

Sorry to go on. I hope this has addressed some of your points.

[Kennedy]

Come on argue with me.... Not the response I was expecting but fair do's, clears it up plainly (and politely). Do you agree with getting people on the dole out and working, if done properly??

[Ganit]

I dont think compulsion helps much, there are so many ways round it if you dont want to be compelled, and people who are being forced are so unwilling as to be more of a liability and a general drag on the mood of everyone around them.

 

Having said that i am all for any kind of training/retraining but these days education for vocational skills has been effectively privatised, and with the ridiculous over professionalisation of all manual trades, its very hard to get anywhere off your own back.

 

The Tories would have it that if a private company and the individual employee benefit from education and continuing professional development then one or the other should have to pay for the training.

 

Whereas in reality, when someone skills up and becomes better qualified and better paid it is to everyone in society's benefit, since they pay taxes rather than making claims not to mention the money they put back into their local economies.

 

Years ago it was much more like this, you could do night classes, or part time learning to get a City and Guilds in almost any trade, now you cant, even if you want to pay for it yourself. In order to do a plumbing NVQ or C&G now you are required to already be in the employ of a registered plumber, this is fine if your 16, but if you are 45 and starting afresh you are knackered these days.

 

Some things just needed to be propped up with taxes, and education is one of them, after all, nobody would ever be silly enough to say that because a child benefits from primary and secondary education that he or she should have to sign their life away for it, the same logic should apply to adults. To stop people signing up willy nilly, you can just stipulate that if you dont do the course work and finish your course, then you should foot the bill yourself.

 

Privatising education and training has been a disaster for students of any manual trade.

 

If we could actually provide enough real training, and enough real jobs, the number of people on the dole would go down till all you'd have left would be the real ne'r do well's, junkies and alchoholics, who are better off on the dole anyway on the basis that two days a fortnight they dont have to go out on the rob (harm reduction).

[Kennedy]

My opinion is if people are receiving money taken from tax money they should be out doing something rather than nothing. I've heard boys whinging about having no money on the dole whilst in the pub drinking, and heard them tell everyone they would do anything work wise as long as they were working but just can't get the break for a job, same ones that told me straight to my face that they don't want any work from me but could you sign this to tell the dole office I was asking and was looking for work, I may jump to conclusions and use the same tar brush sometimes.

[Ganit]

Daytime drinkers are usually alcoholics and are a liability in my opinion. I know alot of people like a drink in the day and can handle it, but i still think its a bad sign.

 

Amusingly you can go on the sick if you are an alcoholic these days, a condition known as habitual drug and alcohol abuse.

 

Too much stick and no carrot just creates resentful donkeys.

 

I can understand your frustrations with people who ask you to connive in their deception though.

Edited June 10, 2012 by Ganit

[Kennedy]

Suppose it depends on if they leave it til there days off and how much they are drinking....... who's drinking during daytime tho???? apart from MPs

[Rich2484]

Daytime drinkers are usually alcoholics and are a liability in my opinion. I know alot of people like a drink in the day and can handle it, but i still think its a bad sign.

 

Amusingly you can go on the sick if you are an alcoholic these days, a condition known as habitual drug and alcohol abuse.

 

Too much stick and no carrot just creates resentful donkeys.

 

I can understand your frustrations with people who ask you to connive in their deception though.

 

I've heard this before. I never knew how the doctors or benifits people know they are a drunk? Do they do a breath test and if you fail you get the money???..

 

I could claim this, all I have to do is turn up drunk and stinking to the office and claim the money.

 

This part of the benifit system is a complete joke to me above all the others, it there fault they are a drunk, they put themselves in that position so they can deal with it. Claim money for drinking too much then spend they oap life in hospital due to kidney failure and tax payers are still footing the bill.

 

Rant over.

[Ganit]

I could claim this, all I have to do is turn up drunk and stinking to the office and claim the money.

 

Correct.

 

You might have to get your GP to write a letter too, this isnt hard.

 

Last time i made a fresh claim for Jobseekers allowance the advisor from the job centre as good as invited me to make a claim for sickness benefits since that helps them meet their targets which in turn helps the government manipulate the figures.

 

Again for me the real scandal is not that there are a few (possibly a good few) cadgers out there, its the shocking waste of tax pounds that are wasted in massaging the figures, be that through encouraging folk to go on the sick or paying "Third sector providers" to provide ineffective/non existent training.

Edited June 10, 2012 by Ganit

[scotspine1]

Ganit,

 

do you want a fulltime job? yes or no?