Anyone else tearing their Hair out??

[tractorboy1]

But you do need to be good at it, and its not always easy

 

You do have to use a hedgecutter that costs as much and more than a chainsaw, it used the same fuel, your truck uses the same diesel to get there, you still need a second man / groundie to chip and clear up if the job is big, the insurance is lower but only if your solely insured at gardening which most of us arent and I wouldnt say its any easier than tree work on the body and I wouldnt say its less skilled than some tree work - with the exception of rigging, tactical climbs - I could fell a tree and process it quicker than the next man can cut a comparable hedge (to a decent standard)...

 

I a agree you have to be good at any job you do to get more work.

 

I still think you will never be a able to charge the same for hedge work as you do for what you might call high end tree work.

 

I class myself as a gardener who does small tree work and do not climb. When I see pictures and vids on here of the highly skilled work carried out i can see its far more skilled than hedge cutting.

 

Thats not to say you cant make good money out of hedge cutting. The way to do it is have good equipment and be fast. Things like the ELH can help alot.

[Old Mill Tree Care]

But you dont need tickets for hedge cutting, its far less skilled job and insurance is a lot lower.

 

Yes but if the client wants to employ a qualified, insured person who conducts themselves professionally, then they must pay for that or get monkeys slipping on bananas.

[tractorboy1]

Yes but if the client wants to employ a qualified, insured person who conducts themselves professionally, then they must pay for that or get monkeys slipping on bananas.

 

What qualifications to cut hedges?

 

My point is also the insurance for just hedge cutting is a lot lower that tree work.

 

Paying a high price for a job doesnt mean you get a good job done. Ive seep plenty of work carried out in peoples gardens for a high price that was rubbish. And work i could not make a penny out of done to a high standard.

[Paul Jenks]

I think Winchman's point was more about margin than actual profit.

[nailer]

well

sounded to me like he was running 2 teams by spending 1 day doing all the business side of things which I think is unachievable

Thats all

I know to run two teams you need to quote at least 10 jobs a week plus the other stuff

If I got this wrong please accept apologies

 

 

Maybe someone mentions this earlier in the thread but there is another way of increasing turnover without having to run around organising two teams. I just have one 7.5 ton truck and one 12 inch chipper. Two other climbers, and two groundies. (All subbies with their own transport.) We all go to each job but two or three guys will set off to the next job at raking / blowing / collecting cheque time. By the time I get there in the truck any cars that were in the way have been moved, someone is already up a tree working away and it all rolls on to the next job.

[Old Mill Tree Care]

I think Winchman's point was more about margin than actual profit.

 

Yes Paul, I agree and my point Tractorboy was about professionalism, not hedge trimming insurance.

[Paul Jenks]

'tis a challenge. We have a daily target to reach based on our budgeting costs. This gives us a cost/man/day. All jobs are priced on how long it should take an average team to complete. The client gets a price and occasionaly an approximate time the job will be completed in. If a top team goes, they are generally a bit costlier to run and get the job done in less time so can get on to another job.

Doesn't matter if we're cutting trees, hedges or grinding stumps costs are costs.

In business the general rule of thumb, and this is a general rule so there will be exceptions, (Huck), one should win about 30-40% of work quoted for. Win more and you're a bit cheap or very good, win less and you're too expensive or cr@p.

Endeavour to analyse why you've lost a job. It's not always price driven. And don't take it personally, it's business

[pos1981]

Evening all,

 

After having read all the comments on this thread i felt i had to have a small input to it.

 

I am new to this industry and as like everyone else that is new, Im finding it hard to get a foot in the door.

 

I have emailed and phoned various companies to try and get some experience, ive even offered to gain experience by doing work voluntarily. This has all drawn a blank. So Let me voice my opinion and please don't shoot me down in flames but it is what ive experienced.

 

1) like i say i contacted lots of companies looking for some work to gain experience i don't expect much if any money for this.

 

2) I decide to go out and get my cs30 +cs31. At the start of the course we were all asked what tree stuff people had done, there were varying answers. During my course i have a look at on arbtalk and read about a guy who had failed his cs31 but passed his cs30. There were lots of comments about going getting some practice in and doing lots of practise cuts on trees until confident.

 

3) I read a lot about about people undercutting people and so called Gypsies doing rubbish work etc.

 

So these are my findings and i just want to quickly summerise.

 

Only one of the many companies ever gave me any work for which i am gratful but this not that often. Companies and i can understand want people with qualifications. Fine i go out and pass my cs30+31. During the course i felt quite useless at times as i didn't have the confidence as some of the others as i didn't have the experience! I have no where that i can practise cuts etc as no body in the industry is going to let me loose on trees that i have no experience in.

So to go back to the original thread, I passed my cs30 and 31 i can fell small trees upto a diameter of 15", if i was offered a small tree to take down cut up and take away then i would. What would i charge??? Ive no idea because im having to learn as i go on, Probably less than £100!!!

 

The feeling i get is that experinced established companies don't want all these as some people put it "young college leavers" to come straight out of college with no experience and start working as their competition. What else can they do????

 

People also say I wouldn't do this job for less than this or im not breaking my back for that, and then are constantly saying to newbies that this is a tough industry and back breaking work.

 

All im saying here is if a lot more established compaines maybe gave some of the newbies a bit more of a chance and an opportunity to gain some valuble work experience then maybe there would be less of this so called under cutting???

 

Im sorry to go on and i hope that makes sense.

Ed

[chrisgilltreesurgery]

Maybe someone mentions this earlier in the thread but there is another way of increasing turnover without having to run around organising two teams. I just have one 7.5 ton truck and one 12 inch chipper. Two other climbers, and two groundies. (All subbies with their own transport.) We all go to each job but two or three guys will set off to the next job at raking / blowing / collecting cheque time. By the time I get there in the truck any cars that were in the way have been moved, someone is already up a tree working away and it all rolls on to the next job.

 

Excellent way of working! We used tO do exactly that and it worked great!

[chrisgilltreesurgery]

Evening all,

 

After having read all the comments on this thread i felt i had to have a small input to it.

 

I am new to this industry and as like everyone else that is new, Im finding it hard to get a foot in the door.

 

I have emailed and phoned various companies to try and get some experience, ive even offered to gain experience by doing work voluntarily. This has all drawn a blank. So Let me voice my opinion and please don't shoot me down in flames but it is what ive experienced.

 

1) like i say i contacted lots of companies looking for some work to gain experience i don't expect much if any money for this.

 

2) I decide to go out and get my cs30 +cs31. At the start of the course we were all asked what tree stuff people had done, there were varying answers. During my course i have a look at on arbtalk and read about a guy who had failed his cs31 but passed his cs30. There were lots of comments about going getting some practice in and doing lots of practise cuts on trees until confident.

 

3) I read a lot about about people undercutting people and so called Gypsies doing rubbish work etc.

 

So these are my findings and i just want to quickly summerise.

 

Only one of the many companies ever gave me any work for which i am gratful but this not that often. Companies and i can understand want people with qualifications. Fine i go out and pass my cs30+31. During the course i felt quite useless at times as i didn't have the confidence as some of the others as i didn't have the experience! I have no where that i can practise cuts etc as no body in the industry is going to let me loose on trees that i have no experience in.

So to go back to the original thread, I passed my cs30 and 31 i can fell small trees upto a diameter of 15", if i was offered a small tree to take down cut up and take away then i would. What would i charge??? Ive no idea because im having to learn as i go on, Probably less than £100!!!

 

The feeling i get is that experinced established companies don't want all these as some people put it "young college leavers" to come straight out of college with no experience and start working as their competition. What else can they do????

 

People also say I wouldn't do this job for less than this or im not breaking my back for that, and then are constantly saying to newbies that this is a tough industry and back breaking work.

 

All im saying here is if a lot more established compaines maybe gave some of the newbies a bit more of a chance and an opportunity to gain some valuble work experience then maybe there would be less of this so called under cutting???

 

Im sorry to go on and i hope that makes sense.

Ed

 

I get a new lad fom college every year to give them a chance, ive had some very bad, some not so bad and 1 great! I think what the problem is that people come out of college and try to set up as self employed but they have very little or no experience in the industry, so what i think thy need to do if their end goal is to be self employed in this trade is t get employment and stay in employment untill full capable of all tasks involved. Once you are confident and able in knowledge and skill then you should look to become a self employed arvorist.

 

Lack of knowledge is a far greater crime than lack of skill