education of apprentices

[penfold]

Askham Bryan have just taken over the fe side of newton rigg and are pumping about a million pounds into getting it back on its feet. My woodland management lecturer is a graduate of newton rigg and has worked in forestry since leaving there and has brought that experience to askham bryan.

[Brushcutter]

FMO traing is so expensive. About 80 quid an hour to run a harvester! You also need the timber to put it in.

 

I've been forunate and had very good lads from colleges work with me. Acording to the teachers so don't even bother to turn up to their placements. You can't tar all the newbies with the same brush. I have worked with some people with a shocking knowledge of forestry and they were fresh from the Scotish school of forestry.

[Tom10]

tom i would beg to differ on what you are trying to say if i have read this correctly i do not know what position you are in and I did not that long ago complete a level 2 diploma in trees and timber apprenticeship. and are you saying that this was point less and all that is needed is the CS units???

i think i is very important to learn why someting is done to a tree rather than just letting somone pass a CS ticket which only proves they are competent and they may know sweet FA about trees and there bioligy.

 

No, you have got it confused - I am saying that i think it is very easy for college students to wonder into college on the 1st of the month, and by the turn of the next month they can have a CS 30 31 38 39 and call themselves an arborist. What you have done is great - a fundamental knowledge of trees before you go cutting them them down is important.

 

My point is - that the original post says wouldnt it be better students just do practical beacuse all the theory is a waste of time. - which I disagree with to a degree.

 

BTW - please refer to my recent thread 'newbies and start-ups' for which i got some flack for supporting new arbs so I am with you

 

You see - If i was looking to employ someone - the first question would be what competency do you have in regards to practical work

 

The second would be so what do you know about tree's

 

Our viewpoints are completely the same - people should have a knowledge AS WELL as CS units - but I think it is fair to say CS units are (in the everyday world) more useful and resourceful to an employer as the original post says.

 

Edited April 18, 2012 by Tom10

[Tom10]

What about out of university arb students?

 

Erm - I dont know how to answer that. My point is that people should have a good knowledge of trees (whether UNI or College or an apprenticeship with a good arb) but I believe in the real world in the eyes of an employer CS units are more resourceful.

 

Not knocking diplomas and colleges etc. I think its brilliant and Im always looking to progress my knowledge. But as Iv said before in this thread if I was employing someone Id rather they had CS units so they can get on with work and we can learn about biology on the way.

 

[Tom10]

Part of the problem is that colleges keep shouting about how desperate industry is for new blood!

 

Agree

[Pommie]

The NVQ in Trees and Timber has several different pathways to the Diploma, INCLUDING training for the CS units. The apprentices should have a buy in from their employer to give these kids exposure to all the elements of the course. In many ways the passing students are more experienced than the guys coming off of full time courses. My son is on the apprentiship scheme and the structure of work guidence and college is working very well for him. Oh and the CS training is free for under 18s (gov funded) so the only expence is the cost of the assesments.

[Frankie Lawrence]

I did the apprenticeship and I got all my basic cs plus more tickets from the college to I'm still within the industry as is one of the other lads I completed it with. The rest dropped out.

[RobRainford]

Erm - I dont know how to answer that. My point is that people should have a good knowledge of trees (whether UNI or College or an apprenticeship with a good arb) but I believe in the real world in the eyes of an employer CS units are more resourceful.

 

Not knocking diplomas and colleges etc. I think its brilliant and Im always looking to progress my knowledge. But as Iv said before in this thread if I was employing someone Id rather they had CS units so they can get on with work and we can learn about biology on the way.

 

 

I'm on the verge of finishing my BSc in arb at myerscough. I had some of my tickets before I started in 2009. However if I had just carried on learning off the tools my knowledge would be nowhere near what it is now.

 

The HE level qualifications level 4 and above are a much more in depth knowledge and also include surveying and hazard and risk management.

 

Learning about the biology on the way is tricky.

 

If I handed in my CV with a BSc (level 6) in arb on and all the relevant tickets but only 3 years part time experience, and a lad with a level 3 diploma hands his in with the same tickets and 2 years full time experience, who would be the better person to have in your eyes?

[nathan marshall]

No, you have got it confused - I am saying that i think it is very easy for college students to wonder into college on the 1st of the month, and by the turn of the next month they can have a CS 30 31 38 39 and call themselves an arborist. What you have done is great - a fundamental knowledge of trees before you go cutting them them down is important.

 

My point is - that the original post says wouldnt it be better students just do practical beacuse all the theory is a waste of time. - which I disagree with to a degree.

 

BTW - please refer to my recent thread 'newbies and start-ups' for which i got some flack for supporting new arbs so I am with you

 

You see - If i was looking to employ someone - the first question would be what competency do you have in regards to practical work

 

The second would be so what do you know about tree's

 

Our viewpoints are completely the same - people should have a knowledge AS WELL as CS units - but I think it is fair to say CS units are (in the everyday world) more useful and resourceful to an employer as the original post says.

 

 

ok thanks. i now understand wehere you are comming from and im abit sorry. as for your point of strolling into college and within a month you have all your cs tickets, when i was at college that was not possible as the train to start with was all theroey an then slowly progressed on to tickets CS 30 and 31 and then moved up to then take the cs tickets when you were ready. but as i was on aan apprenticeship i could progress a bit better as i was earning and learning so to speak.

one problem that i will add is one that many people on my course had was on completion of their course many did not have a job and as many had very little expirence some found it very difficult to then find future employment.

I have found it difficult as out of the blue i was made redundant after the boss was struggling in these economic times which i understand completely and i have been franticly searching for a new job sending my cv to just about everywhere but with no luck we will just have to give it time.

[penfold]

it used to be that to get on an academic course you had to have so many hours relevant industry experience. why not bring that back?