Illustrations for UKTC postings

[Tony Croft aka hamadryad]

this is the revised "inclusional" version of that post, much improved with a little help from inclusionAL

 

Pruning as a co-evolutionary process in the ecology of trees in the natural neighbourhood of human beings

 

Trees are pruned - and prune themselves - naturally in many ways, both biotic and abiotic. Trees have depended upon and co-evolved with fungi throughout their life on Earth. As a group fungi are quick to attune to new circumstances and sources of energy, and have the capacity to breakdown ANY naturally occurring organic compounds, even petro-chemicals. But only some of them can digest particular compounds, such as phenolics and polymers, other than simple sugars and amino acids. It is therefore unreasonable to assume that fungal growth can be prevented anywhere as long as sufficient water, organic and mineral nutrients are available to support it.

Correspondingly, although trees undoubtedly produce a variety of chemicals that protect and maintain their cellular structure and function, particular kinds of fungi are able to thrive in and contribute to the formation of habitats for themselves and other organisms that this production gives rise to.

 

A wide variety of relationships between fungi and trees is therefore possible, and whilst some of these may at first glance may seem one-sided and detrimental to the tree, deeper ecological investigation reveals the truth to be much more subtle and difficult to evaluate in terms of simple 'cost-benefit' analysis.

The evolutionary sustainability of any life form is precluded, not ensured, by the elimination of its habitat! Tree-inhabiting fungi should not therefore be thought of primarily as enemies of trees, intent on destroying them, but as companions of trees that ensure the growth, degeneration, decomposition and regeneration of trees in natural ecosystems, through a co-creative evolutionary process that Alan Rayner calls "Natural inclusion". It is when human beings intervene in these systems without deeply understanding them, that real damage can result. In many ways, it is human ignorance, not fungi, that should be regarded as the most serious pathogen of trees. Human beings need to understand themselves, trees and fungi as mutually dependent, co-creative companions in the evolutionary story of life on Earth, not as opponents.

[Tony Croft aka hamadryad]

Apart from the anamorph Chalara fraxinea of Hymenoscyphus pseudoalbidus, Fraxinus has no tree species specific parasitic macrofungi. Even Perenniporia fraxinea is not restricted to Fraxinus and Daldinia concentrica also fruits from Quercus, Fagus, Alnus and Betula.

Inonotus hispidus not only occurs on Fraxinus, but also on Quercus, Aesculus, Celtis, Crataegus, Juglans, Malus, Ulmus, Platanus, Morus, Populus, Prunus, Pyrus, Robinia, Salix, Sophora, Sorbus, Tilia, Vitis and Fagus.

And Fraxinus has no symbiotic macrofungi, because it's associated with endomycorrhizal microfungi.

Conclusion : Apart from a single exclusive parasitic and only a few tree species specific saprotrophic macrofungi, Fraxinus excelsior has no tree species specific macrofungi and this tree species is not an example of co-evolution with macrofungi at all.

 

and gerrit, you can add acer and aesculus to the daldinia host range:thumbup:

[slack ma girdle]

This looks like an interesting debate gentleman, but can we have subtitles, less big words and more pictures.

[Treecreeper1961]

and gerrit, you can add acer and aesculus to the daldinia host range:thumbup:

 

I have seen it on a fire damaged Aesculus.

[Fungus]

you can add acer and aesculus to the daldinia host range

 

Apart from D. concentrica, there are five other European species of Daldinia that live on different tree hosts, so without microscopical check, this can be another species. And three of these five other Daldinia species are exclusive or have a strong preference for burned wood, especially for that of birch.

[Tony Croft aka hamadryad]

Apart from D. concentrica, there are five other European species of Daldinia that live on different tree hosts, so without microscopical check, this can be another species. And three of these five other Daldinia species are exclusive or have a strong preference for burned wood, especially for that of birch.

 

 

I will bear that in mind, I thought it was seven species of Daldinia?

 

seems 14!

 

Leaving Facebook... | Facebook

75.Fournier-and-M.-Stadler-0001.doc

Edited April 14, 2012 by Tony Croft aka hamadryad

[Fungus]

I thought it was seven species of Daldinia? seems 14 !

 

Worldwide there are even more than 14, but from the Western European continent only six species are documented.

[Amelanchier]

It is not in the species specific fungus own interests to kill the host, that is not a strategy for ultimate success, true success in nature requires mutual cooperation's or what Alan Rayner would call "Natural inclusion"naturally inclusive relationships" True pathogenesis is extremely rare in nature because it is a self defeating process that eliminates the host species, see dutch elm disease.

 

I think you need to read outside of your mycocentric library Tony. To be evolutionarily successful (i.e., to exhibit an evolutionarily stable strategy), an organism only needs it host to survive for as long as it takes to replicate sufficiently to infect another host. It's hosts quality of life is largely irrelevant. Kolmogorov models and Lotka–Volterra equations describe the rest of the party.

 

Would you care to describe your theory of mutual cooperation in the context of HIV in Homo sapiens? Or perhaps the mutual advantage obtained by the host species involved in the life cycle of the Ichneumonidae wasps? Guinea worms? Bot flies? Ticks? Toxoplasmosis gondii?

 

For every cute little clownfish peeking out from a pretty anenome or fig wasp elegantly specialised to a particular variety of Ficus there's four or five other species that would indifferently leave you hemorrhaging blood from your eyes or with your colon teaming with eggs.

[Tony Croft aka hamadryad]

I think you need to read outside of your mycocentric library Tony. To be evolutionarily successful (i.e., to exhibit an evolutionarily stable strategy), an organism only needs it host to survive for as long as it takes to replicate sufficiently to infect another host. It's hosts quality of life is largely irrelevant. Kolmogorov models and Lotka–Volterra equations describe the rest of the party.

 

Would you care to describe your theory of mutual cooperation in the context of HIV in Homo sapiens? Or perhaps the mutual advantage obtained by the host species involved in the life cycle of the Ichneumonidae wasps? Guinea worms? Bot flies? Ticks? Toxoplasmosis gondii?

 

For every cute little clownfish peeking out from a pretty anenome or fig wasp elegantly specialised to a particular variety of Ficus there's four or five other species that would indifferently leave you hemorrhaging blood from your eyes or with your colon teaming with eggs.

 

ha ha, getting plenty of kraken fury lately!

 

Tony, get your head out of the elitest darwinian logic your so consumed by and I will do as you ask and look outside my library.

 

Nature is full of diverse relationships and not all are based on dog eat dog and survival of the fittest, diversification is not driven by the elitest darwinian model, that narrows the field.

 

it doesnt matter anyways, i am on the point of leaving this all alone and minding my own business, theres a carplake down the road with my name on a few bigguns and Ive spent way too much time banging heads.

[RobArb]

 

Nature is full of diverse relationships and not all are based on dog eat dog and survival of the fittest, diversification is not driven by the elitest darwinian model, that narrows the field.

 

 

Can we name a few and i'll read about em:001_smile: