old milling machinery

[Natrix natrix]

Hi, I was wondering if anybody’s come across old milling machinery to use off of the toothed gears of an old water mill, theres belts to, originally used for flour milling with stones and still works. Just wondering if I could set up a movable wood mill for occasional use. For fun..

[agg221]

Most older mills are belt driven. I imagine this would be due to running a remote power supply - Steam engines aren't exactly compact and portable and even a traction engine can't get that close to the driveshaft without getting very cumbersome. I can't see why you couldn't set up a water mill to run a sawmill via a pulley arrangement. If you put a pulley on one of the shafts in a convenient location and ran that through to a fast and loose arrangement on the saw then it should work OK. You'd want to get the rotational speed right, so if it was a circular saw you would need to determine the correct peripheral speed for the blade, know the rotational speed of the shaft and adjust the ratio through the ratio of the diameters of the driving and driven pulleys. It's unlikely that you could change the driven pulleys very easily if they are pre-installed in a fast and loose arrangement, so there would need to be an approximately correct input shaft speed to get it to work. I doubt lack of power would be an issue.

 

Alec

[Natrix natrix]

Thanks Alec

 

That’s given me quite a lot to think about, in the mill set up. There is the main shaft of the stone grinding mill, and diving that is the horizontal axel, which in turn is tooth driven off the main wheel.

 

There is no loose and fast arrangement of belts installed but there is the possibility of using it off the axel as they used to use it for a threshing machine. In the back waiting for a bit of work.

So if I understand this right, I could look for the saw, and find out the peripheral turn speed, then work out the drive speed of the main water wheel and adjust and compensate with the belts?

Like you said power is not a problem, however the turn speed of the wheel is remacabley tactile, at the moment just getting to know it since three months. The slightest change in water presser is easerly noticed, I youes the piece of metal in the hole of the mill leat method, not to scientific but you learn to listen to the sound, with the stones it is not such a problem I think because to an extent once turned they also turn the water wheel. However I wonder if that might be an issue with a wood saw?

Not sure where I might find the saw and belt at the moment but when I do I’ll feedback.

Ross

[twmarriott]

being a millwright and having been a water and windmiller for a day job and having rebuilt several water mills i can work out what your at. we used to cut firewood using water power just running a small cast bench running a 3 foot blade, a big rack bench will take more than your wheel is going to generate and you will need to gear it up some.

the wheel will run around 8-10 rpm depending on overshot, breast shot etc.. and size.

the internal pit wheel will run either a wallower and vertical shaft (handily called upright shaft) and spur above it to stone "nuts" to turn the stones, we had a steam drive auxilary on the top of the spur (cast ring bolted on i made a pattern and had it cast) and a mitre bevel to a horizontal shaft out through a window, replaced with a beam and plumber block.... that gave a pulley on the shaft 500 rpm to the wheels 8, but even then was a bit slow for serious sawing. we run a large rack i'll put some pics in a seperate thread, run sometimes off a steamer usually off a tractor needs all of 40hp with the 6'6" blade in oak. your wheel will generate at best half that....

stick to milling with it or put a small cast bench for firewood off the lineshafting your wasting your time otherwise sorry to be a downer.

[twmarriott]

here you go a pic of our rack in use last week,

[wisewood]

Interesting subject:001_smile:

Can't really add much to what has already been said but you might want to look into this National Trust property, Dunham Massey. Link below.National Mills Weekend: Dunham Massey mill

[delabodge]

being a millwright and having been a water and windmiller for a day job and having rebuilt several water mills i can work out what your at. we used to cut firewood using water power just running a small cast bench running a 3 foot blade, a big rack bench will take more than your wheel is going to generate and you will need to gear it up some.

the wheel will run around 8-10 rpm depending on overshot, breast shot etc.. and size.

the internal pit wheel will run either a wallower and vertical shaft (handily called upright shaft) and spur above it to stone "nuts" to turn the stones, we had a steam drive auxilary on the top of the spur (cast ring bolted on i made a pattern and had it cast) and a mitre bevel to a horizontal shaft out through a window, replaced with a beam and plumber block.... that gave a pulley on the shaft 500 rpm to the wheels 8, but even then was a bit slow for serious sawing. we run a large rack i'll put some pics in a seperate thread, run sometimes off a steamer usually off a tractor needs all of 40hp with the 6'6" blade in oak. your wheel will generate at best half that....

stick to milling with it or put a small cast bench for firewood off the lineshafting your wasting your time otherwise sorry to be a downer.

 

great reply, we really do have a great mix of knowledge on here, post some more pics mate,mean looking saw:thumbup:

[twmarriott]

Interesting subject:001_smile:

Can't really add much to what has already been said but you might want to look into this National Trust property, Dunham Massey. Link below.National Mills Weekend: Dunham Massey mill

 

funny that there are various remains of water driven saw mills left but only two survived complete-ish, dunham massey, converted from corn and had issues so had a steam engine to replace the wheel eventually....

and one in norfolk whose name escapes me.... but again was on an estate so not really a comercial environment.

there were saws driven by water turbines via electric but again not really very common, turbines run faster and are more efficient but would eat water...so needed a good supply.

dunham and the norfolk one were both owned by estates so labour was cheap and i suspect just used for estate use using cheap labour when nothing else to do in the winter...

they were more popular on the contiment but didn't use circular saws, tended to use a vertical reciprocating saw, much slower and hence a lower power requirement..... known as a frame saw. maybe you could build one of those???

i did some work at dunham massey 12 years ago for the NT.

[skyhuck]

I have an old flat belt driven rack saw, its built as a tailer that was pulled and powered by a traction engine, it has a 48" (I think) inserted tooth plate.

 

I bought it to cut timber for my own use and because I liked it, but I was kidding myself, I don't have time to play with it, so I'm going to sell if your interested PM me.

 

It was on the old Arbtrader for a while and some one said they were having it, but never came.