Saving the old growth- you must see this!

[Tony Croft aka hamadryad]

RobArb-Although I find you current cause very noble and worthwhile, I can't help but wonder how much of this is "preaching". Similar to the christian thread and how some rather devout christian force their message (not all by the way) on everyday folk...

 

Is this thread really forcing it on anyone? like a T.V channel one only has to turn over, or ignore it, but the truth is deep down we ALL know the reality is we are on the brink. The brink of eco system failure, and on both a local and global perspective.

 

In this statement he compares my "preaching" to that christian fervour that has throughout history been the cause of great problems. Yet what I am asking not preaching you all to do is take care of your ecosystem, and thats all. I AM asking you to have faith of sorts, but only in that we must have faith in our own power to turn this around.

 

RobArb-It happens in all walks of life, beliefs of one thing or another that are truly believed and lived by that person that they take over and consume rationality (imo).

 

And here we hint at the fact that I have an irrational perspective, that is to be expected from an academic, ones training coming to the fore.

 

I like the following extract-

 

In contemporary philosophy "irrationalism" is, inspired by Hindu and Buddhist philosophies, emerging into a new growing school of thought in which the importance of our intuitive capability is stressed. One such young philosopher, Robin Vermoesen (Belgium, 3 November 1978), states in his Dutch written book Rationaliteit is vals (translated: "Rationality is false") that every conscious is at the same time an individual being and total reality, thus as a consequence our rationalistic capabilities aren't enough if we truly want to understand reality in its truest form. For us to truly know reality we need to become it, we need to become our Self. He further states that there are four "knowledge relationships", (in growing order of intimacy: knowing, sensing, realizing and being) a being can experience, and all true knowledge of the Self, thus reality, must eventually grow into the most intimate of the four: being. Since rationalistic knowledge can bring us only knowing, it is, although a necessary tool, not enough to uncover reality. It needs to be balanced by other capabilities and framed in a patchwork that gives positive meaning to personal commitment.

 

 

 

Robarb says-Again this is NOT a criticism, I am fully aware of the path you have chosen and commend you for choices, but it just feels as though a message is being preached, which I don't agree with.

 

again rob, here you first apologise for the thing you say you are not doing just before you do it! not once but twice in one post, you must be serious, that is not a fair assumption? can one safely assume that when a man re iterates his point, and even uses the same word (preach) twice in the same post:001_rolleyes:

 

 

I was disapointed because I expect MUCH more from you than this, I see a lack of insight to a bigger perspective in this post from you, and a fair amount of jade in the colouration.

 

and that is where the kiddo comes from!

[RobArb]

i can do that too, bear with:biggrin:

 

ps, where you suggesting i was drinking:lol:

[RobArb]

Starting with the title

 

Saving the old growth- you must see this!

 

Why not just call the thread "Saving the old growth"

 

 

Is this thread really forcing it on anyone? like a T.V channel one only has to turn over, or ignore it, but the truth is deep down we ALL know the reality is we are on the brink. The brink of eco system failure, and on both a local and global perspective.

 

 

Saying "you must see this" implies force, masters of the spoken (and written) word tend to be the ones that succeed the most

 

 

why not plant natives? were talking about restoring OUR individual "natural nieghbourhoods" our lungs are all different eco systems, we need Oak and ash and beech, sorbus, cherry, elder yew etc etc

 

Good question, but why not, NOT plant natives? the theory of evolution is an interesting one and things over millions of years change, some for better, some for worse. Plate techtonics cause continents to move, oceans rise and fall, things will eventually move locations and we could see giant sequoia's growing in sunny blackpool. We are all open to choices, those of stronger mind make their own, others follow.

 

 

Why not plant sequoias?? They are my favourite tree for so many reasons... And as the video said; they are amongst the higest co2 absorbing tree you could plant.

 

Did this question get answered? Why not plant sequoias?

 

 

This will be one of the best 44 minutes youll ever spend

 

 

That word, "will", can be used to express a command, exhortation, or injunction <you will do as I say, at once> and should be used more wisely

 

Would it not have been more pertinent to introduce the video and ask for reactions rather than saying we "will" enjoy it?

 

 

 

that is your free choice, but bear in mind you have just exposed as so many others have a very narrow perception of that message. I guess some poeple will not acept the truth and the discomfort that goes with accepting that we are on a path that we will see end the reign of the human animal.

 

reading between the lines this post says that i have free will and choice but because it is not in agreeance i will be damned

 

 

 

And here we hint at the fact that I have an irrational perspective, that is to be expected from an academic, ones training coming to the fore.

 

I like the following extract-

 

In contemporary philosophy "irrationalism" is, inspired by Hindu and Buddhist philosophies, emerging into a new growing school of thought in which the importance of our intuitive capability is stressed. One such young philosopher, Robin Vermoesen (Belgium, 3 November 1978), states in his Dutch written book Rationaliteit is vals (translated: "Rationality is false") that every conscious is at the same time an individual being and total reality, thus as a consequence our rationalistic capabilities aren't enough if we truly want to understand reality in its truest form. For us to truly know reality we need to become it, we need to become our Self. He further states that there are four "knowledge relationships", (in growing order of intimacy: knowing, sensing, realizing and being) a being can experience, and all true knowledge of the Self, thus reality, must eventually grow into the most intimate of the four: being. Since rationalistic knowledge can bring us only knowing, it is, although a necessary tool, not enough to uncover reality. It needs to be balanced by other capabilities and framed in a patchwork that gives positive meaning to personal commitment.

 

 

Are you suggesting that all academics have a narrow view of things because they are trained? I'm no academic, i'm doing a degree because unfortunatley in life MONEY rules, i have mouths to feed, and in my chosen field, if i want to succeed, having a degree is going to help

 

Have you ever read and Albert Camus and his ideas on the absurd. How he emphasizes happiness is fleeting and the mortality of the human condition. I could delve into it further but would prefer you to make your own conclusions as i would expect you of me.

 

Which brings me to my point, and a bit of a controversial question/idea....

 

What if this, the world, evolution, death of one ecosystem, the start of another was meant to be. What if mother earth put us on this planet to destroy it? Not complete destruction but to finish of the human cycle? The meteorite destroyed the dinosaurs what if we where put here to finish this cycle of events for a new one WITHOUT US to start... not saying that this is right but its an interesting theory.....

 

answers/arguments on a postcard:001_cool:

[RobArb]

Oh and i also like rudyard kiplings IF, not many of us can call ourselves a man, my son:001_rolleyes:

[Danavan]

So if by the first vid's point planting some good genetic trees is one step in the right direction then choosing wisely what trees for what areas is also an important factor, add also to this equation the fact that our environment is ever changing in ways we are still trying to find the effect of & how dramatically these will change our immediate eco system & we have to look at changing our planting strategy too. Maybe some spp that will be more tolerant of the change's to come are the order of the day.

The message is shocking enough, whats more disturbing is that most of us will carry on sleepwalking into this until it has a real dramatic effect on our everyday lives..

Maybe the trifids should come & do a little clean up of their own:001_tongue:

 

Thanks for posting Tony:thumbup:

[Tony Croft aka hamadryad]

i quit

[RobArb]

don't quit, it was getting interesting:biggrin:

[Tony Croft aka hamadryad]

don't quit, it was getting interesting:biggrin:

 

 

was it, feels like its gone off topic and pissing contest:thumbdown:

[RobArb]

nope, i thought you meant you quit after danavans post?

 

i want to hear YOUR theories and arguements against our ideas of planting other species of trees as apposed to natives:biggrin:

 

and i mean your ideas, not from videos:biggrin:

 

and i am GENUIENLY interested:biggrin:

[Tony Croft aka hamadryad]

nope, i thought you meant you quit after danavans post?

 

i want to hear YOUR theories and arguements against our ideas of planting other species of trees as apposed to natives:biggrin:

 

and i mean your ideas, not from videos:biggrin:

 

and i am GENUIENLY interested

 

To be honest robin im feeling pretty crap right now about this thread, danavans made a good post, but when people screw the theme I prefer to let threads die and gather dust in the vaults.