benifits cap @ £26k

[geoff]

It's all very easy to say that people should be expected to pick up litter or dog poo, or help in old peoples homes or schools in exchange for their dole money. BUT, it's a crap idea.

 

It does people out of jobs. If an old peoples home can get free assistance from unemployed people, then what's going to happen to the jobs they would otherwise be employing people to do? Same with schools. My Mrs is pretty highly qualified in terms of early years childcare (she sat gawd knows how many courses etc in order to maintain her registration) and is has tried for months/years to get teaching assistant jobs in schools. But she can't get a look in because there are some right knobby mums, with absolutely zero qualifications, no early years childcare course under their belts, or anything, who go in and do it for free just because they "want something to do while hubby is out earning a fortune". These mums typically drive to the school in brand new Range Rovers and BMW X5s that hubby has had to buy in order to reduce his tax bill.

 

And the same with litter pickers. The council EMPLOYS street maintenance crews. If they start having free labour picking up litter, then what happens to the maintenance crews? They become underworked and then unemployed. And same with free labour doing weeding in old biddies gardens - that does me out of work. Next thing, the government will be putting unemployed on Arb courses..... they'll have no work.... so they'll get dole and then be put out to work for free on council trees, or in gardens of old biddy homes. So what will happen to your work? It'll become completely devalued, you'll have less of it, you'll pack it in because you can't earn a living and then become unemployed. You'll have your qualifications and experience, but no work, so they'll pay your dole and in return you'll be expected to do tree work for £70/week dole money. Good eh?

 

I think you miss the point Pedroski,If these people (the ones who work the system) had to do work for their money there would be more reason for them to get off their backsides & get a propper paid job,& the fact is the streets etc are not getting cleaned like they were due to cut backs,just like many other areas where maintenance of public buildings/areas is getting no or low maintenance,its all about encouraging people to want to work,rather than think'sod it ,I'm better off on the jam roll,& maybe top it up with a bit of moonlighting/theiving'.

[felixthelogchopper]

I think you miss the point Pedroski,If these people (the ones who work the system) had to do work for their money there would be more reason for them to get off their backsides & get a propper paid job,& the fact is the streets etc are not getting cleaned like they were due to cut backs,just like many other areas where maintenance of public buildings/areas is getting no or low maintenance,its all about encouraging people to want to work,rather than think'sod it ,I'm better off on the jam roll,& maybe top it up with a bit of moonlighting/theiving'.

 

Pedroski, what about if the people receiving benefits were used to do projects that would otherwise not be done, like area clean-ups?

[firewood]

Would certainly help with shortfall in funding local services. Only problem I can foresee is that the amount of hours worked would have to be balanced against the minimum wage.

 

No problem...the benefit is the pay.

 

http://www.kinnoirwoodfuel.co.uk

[Pedroski]

I think you miss the point Pedroski,If these people (the ones who work the system) had to do work for their money there would be more reason for them to get off their backsides & get a propper paid job,& the fact is the streets etc are not getting cleaned like they were due to cut backs,just like many other areas where maintenance of public buildings/areas is getting no or low maintenance,its all about encouraging people to want to work,rather than think'sod it ,I'm better off on the jam roll,& maybe top it up with a bit of moonlighting/theiving'.

 

 

Still wrong. If they are put into these jobs then they need to be paid a proper wage for doing them, not expected to do them in exchange for dole money. It's either a job that needs doing in which case it's got to pay a proper wage, regardless of cutbacks. It's all being done arse about face.

[felixthelogchopper]

No problem...the benefit is the pay.

 

kwfhomepage

 

That is what I mean. The amount of hours to earn the benefit could not be more than the amount of hours to earn that much @ the minimum wage

[firewood]

It's all very easy to say that people should be expected to pick up litter or dog poo, or help in old peoples homes or schools in exchange for their dole money. BUT, it's a crap idea.

 

It does people out of jobs. If an old peoples home can get free assistance from unemployed people, then what's going to happen to the jobs they would otherwise be employing people to do? Same with schools. My Mrs is pretty highly qualified in terms of early years childcare (she sat gawd knows how many courses etc in order to maintain her registration) and is has tried for months/years to get teaching assistant jobs in schools. But she can't get a look in because there are some right knobby mums, with absolutely zero qualifications, no early years childcare course under their belts, or anything, who go in and do it for free just because they "want something to do while hubby is out earning a fortune". These mums typically drive to the school in brand new Range Rovers and BMW X5s that hubby has had to buy in order to reduce his tax bill.

 

And the same with litter pickers. The council EMPLOYS street maintenance crews. If they start having free labour picking up litter, then what happens to the maintenance crews? They become underworked and then unemployed. And same with free labour doing weeding in old biddies gardens - that does me out of work. Next thing, the government will be putting unemployed on Arb courses..... they'll have no work.... so they'll get dole and then be put out to work for free on council trees, or in gardens of old biddy homes. So what will happen to your work? It'll become completely devalued, you'll have less of it, you'll pack it in because you can't earn a living and then become unemployed. You'll have your qualifications and experience, but no work, so they'll pay your dole and in return you'll be expected to do tree work for £70/week dole money. Good eh?

 

You are right...there is a risk of displacing paid posts but there are many socially useful tasks that can be done without that problem. If such a scheme were introduced my guess is that a big percentage of claimants would melt away and get a real job leaving the ones that were honest and trying hard to benefit from the system.

 

http://www.kinnoirwoodfuel.co.uk

[Pedroski]

Pedroski, what about if the people receiving benefits were used to do projects that would otherwise not be done, like area clean-ups?

 

Provided the benefits they were receiving properly represented the value of the work they are doing, then fine.... which means 40 hours of work per week should be rewarded with payment equivalent to 40 hours of minimum wage and the recipient should then be entitled to working tax credit and child tax credits to bring this up to the minimum living income. In other words, it becomes a low paid job.

[Andy Collins]

Seems as though nothing has changed, and nothing has been learned over the years. Back in the 80s I was a supervisor looking after guys and girls sent by the then Manpower Services Commission to get back into the work ethic. They were paid their dole money plus a tenner incentive to get up in the morning, and most couldn't manage that. The days were easy, the main thing was to get them to turn up at a fixed time and finish at a fixed time. Turnover was high, one chance then they were gone, with officially 3million unemployed there were plenty more out there. Now we're in the same boat, give or take a couple of folk, and allowing for govt manipulation of the jobless figures, yeah politicians know how to sort a mess, make a bigger one to take our eyes off the other one!

[Rich2484]

yeah politicians know how to sort a mess, make a bigger one to take our eyes off the other one!

 

nail on the head me thinks...