annoyed by highly qualified ..rubbsih climbers

[Bundle 2]

I know what you are saying ..up to a point mate...but your argument is flawed...do you want them to learn the craft of climbing or grounding...if its climbing, then why put them on the floor when they will be too busy to observe the climbers in action...if your all so good that you move like greased lightening, a mere blur up the tree! or is it grounding you want them to learn...in which case a stint up the tree would be an invaluable insight as to needs of climbers and the work involved....

I sympathise with what seems to be a somewhat depressing aspect to our working environment...namely that the industry is something of a training ground with alot of youngsters still wet behind the ears an'all.....but then I have found it just as frustrating when working with mature operatives who simply refuse to consider newer/different methods cos its a wee bit uncomfortable or summat.....they should know better:confused1:

[Yorkshireman]

IMO climbers need to beable to & work with the groundies

 

I have spoken to guys, who say

" oh yeah when i've done the climbing I leave to rest up to the brash rats " I just sort my ropes !

 

Wrong !!!!!

 

if you've not managed the work properly, ie a reasonable rate that doesnt leave a crows nest of brash @ the foot of the tree !!!

then I expect you, when your feet hit the floor to start tidying up the mess you've made !!

 

Thats why climbers must understand how the ground team works & the processes involved

 

as for inflexibility ,thats a whole different issue , I trust thinks that havent caused me injury pain grief ie unreliable

I know and understand you point & I am open to new methods , however some stuff is done because its seems cool its shinny & wicked colours ,

if you can climb & Td on a simple system or a complex one , then great

however the more stuff in the bag = more to break / leave behind , replace ,fund etc etc

 

for some companys it a case of why fix what isnt broken,, more to put in your MS RA that you may not be justified , take lockjacks Great untill you catch the release & then they quickly become the biggest waste of money as your nuts end up in your throat !!

[Mick Stockbridge]

I have spoken to guys, who say

" oh yeah when i've done the climbing I leave to rest up to the brash rats " I just sort my ropes !

 

Prima Donna,s

[Yorkshireman]

I've seen newbies go to shows & BUY stuff because it looks good , & then ask " whats it for ?" WTF

ASK first EH !!

[Mick Stockbridge]

I've seen newbies go to shows & BUY stuff because it looks good , & then ask " whats it for ?" WTF

ASK first EH !!

 

They just want all that bright and shiney stuff cos it looks good and sounds all jingley when it,s hanging off the harness.

[Bermy]

I'm curious...60 quid a day, that about $90 to $120 per day depending on the exchange rate...

$450 to $600 per week...is that gross or take home?

 

Over here you couldn't afford a tent in a park on that, what are the basics for living in the UK just now?

Rent, a week's worth of groceries, fuel? Does the business pay health insurance, pension???

 

Again, just curious.

[Bundle 2]

I agree but it comes down to discipline and method when the scenario involves subbies who dont work together on regular basis...and method is a minefield for disagreement ime and unneccessary discussion which goes round and round and doesnt achieve anything much, certainly not the job in hand....And how do you get away from this as so many " bosses" again, from experience, either dont specify method, (usually a good thing) or specify impractical solutions as to how to proceed...but again what to do, as the workplace is aways gonna have trainees who know no better frankly and probably need tellin' cos they either gonna have an accident ( no-one needs it ) or they will simply learn nothing new.

Nobody is suggesting that the premadonnas who perceive their work to involve climbing and nothing else are desirable...you need to be adaptable and versatile.....actually, you really need to be willing to work!

It also comes down to the issue of pay....if you gonna pay piss poor,( Im not saying you do you understand...) you wont get no respect from me in all liklihood but there would need to be other compensations, such as a progressive training potential perhaps, properly organised work with adequate equipment, a progressive and decent attitude to the longterm issues of method re wear and tear on bodies ( MSD) the list goes on.

Its a hard enough business already as has been stated...this b******t about 80' dead Beech trees done in a day.....Not a very impressive advertisement for the industry...I'll just no read too much into it eh!!

[Bundle 2]

I'm curious...60 quid a day, that about $90 to $120 per day depending on the exchange rate...

$450 to $600 per week...is that gross or take home?

 

Over here you couldn't afford a tent in a park on that, what are the basics for living in the UK just now?

Rent, a week's worth of groceries, fuel? Does the business pay health insurance, pension???

 

Again, just curious.

Spot on mate......

Edited November 4, 2008 by Amelanchier
language

[Jason James Gairn]

Hey Bundle 2, you speak much wisdom. The best team I worked with had climbers who did the groundwork. Climbers who do a good mix of both are usually the best at both. Each discipline informs the other. I hate this `us and them' rubbish. I've never worked in an environment where that prevailed and I would leave if it did. As far as suggesting that one job is easier or harder than the other is concerned, that also is ridiculous. the mental intensity of a hard technical climb can not be compared to anything on the ground, conversely the sheer hard slog of a long drag up hill all day long without respite is pure hell.

Each and every job determines the lions share of the work. A climber deadwooding will climb all day for a wheelbarrow of chips, snoozing groundsmen all over the place, a willow take down in a field, would destroy the moral of any groundcrew.

These conflicts only arise where people don't know what they are doing. A good unit is comprised of sensitive hardworking professionals.

Every car driver should have to ride motorbike for couple of years. Every climber should have to do ground work. Every groundsman should have a working knowledge of the climbers Psyche.

[ukminch]

In reply to Jason James Gairn:

 

I take what your saying, as far as I was concerned he was safe (as you can be doing this job) awesome level of fitness combined with a methodical working approach meaning less climbing than many would have done. Bits roped down where necessary - I especially like the way he roped several small branches down together saving numerous lowers.

 

As for piecework always difficult. It's fairer that those that work harder, better, smarter earn more money. Obviously that shouldn't come at the risk of safety but thats the climbers call when he's in the tree I guess.

 

Rob