Thoughts please on a Beech problem

[treeseer]

2. No, the other beeches would need identification of the Ganoderma species first before further investigation, assessment of the decay and diagnosis of the condition of each one of the trees.

 

Thank you, sir. It's good to see some awareness of risk management beyond the "Bad" Decay + Target = Fell process expressed here. Also to consider are:

 

1. Pruning options. All of them!

 

2. Root care options

 

3. Soil fixing options

 

4. Support options

 

It's disconcerting to hear this Fell/Leave dichotomy from the land of Conservation Arboriculture, as if trees were only black and white, instead of shades of gray and brown as they are.

 

"I don't know how exactly investigations on the underside of roots are undertaken or how easily the findings are assessed?"

 

Treecreeper, roots can be assessed by sounding with a mallet, and probing diagonally to see how thick the woody supporting roots are. They can also be drilled to see how thick their wood is. It does not seem scientific to pose the possibility of extensive lower decay, instead of advising the assessors to use their hands on the tree and learn facts from them instead of bandying theories about based on *possible* growth of decay fungi.

 

"It is not a responsibility I would relish but I think I would recommend..."

 

Why should arborists feel compelled to recommend anything? These are not their trees; they belong to someone else, and so do those decisions, and the liability. Arborists are best off getting paid to assess objectively, then list management options. If we as contractors venture to offer free opinions, all the while with chainsaws at the ready, the owner(s) should dam well get a paid, objective, second opinion.

 

imo:001_smile:

[RobArb]

So your saying you would leave in a large beech with meripilus in a high risk zone??

 

Sent from Rob's GalaxySII

[RobRainford]

 

Why should arborists feel compelled to recommend anything?

 

Because our industry cares for trees and manages them according to their situation, if I am brought in to advise on a tree, I would recommend my opinion on the situation, in this one, due to its location, I would recommend removing some trees and pruning others hard.

 

You can assess these trees all you want, use fancy equipment costing thousands, but knowledge of tree/fungi interactions and having a good understanding gives good reason to have the flash tools as more of a last resort!

[Fungus]

... knowledge of tree/fungi interactions ...

 

That's what it is all about , and that's what the "better Guy" obviously lacks and over and over again tells us a professional arborist does not need for a valid diagnosis and giving advice on management of either "black & white" or shades of "gray & brown" trees just waiting for our chainsaws to bring them down ASAP .

[treeseer]

"Because our industry cares for trees and manages them according to their situation,"

 

We manage them according to client decisions. If we volunteer to make decisions, we take on liability, without being paid! Supply info; leave the risk with the owner.

 

" if I am brought in to advise on a tree, I would recommend my opinion on the situation"

 

How can we decide what others should do--are we aware of their budget, risk tolerance, and all the target ratings? To avoid risk to your business, tell them what they CAN do, not what they SHOULD do.

 

" knowledge of tree/fungi interactions and having a good understanding gives good reason to have the flash tools as more of a last resort!"

 

This knowledge is very important, but is it really what it is ALL about? Mallets and probes and measuring tapes don't "flash" that much. It should be up to the owner whether or not to use tomography or drilling. The arborist's opinion on probable interactions, given tree and site conditions, is useful. Measuring over time can confirm those opinions, or inform their change.

 

What is the owner's objective? What treatments can achieve that objective?

 

Many beeches with Merip have been retained in public areas, responsibly imo.

 

I pruned a Liriodendron with M.g.; was 113', now 97, with wounds closing. Owners approved the treatments, and the residual risk. Not much beech here; sorry.

Edited November 8, 2011 by treeseer

[Fungus]

I pruned a Liriodendron with M.g.

 

Please present microscopical evidence of Meripilus giganteus on Liriodendron, as according to my literature this would be a first ever on this tree species.

And how did you assess and document the white and soft rot caused by the supposed M. giganteus and the extent of the decay before and the stopping or continuation of the wood decomposition after the wounds were closing ? With your "magic mallet" ?

Edited November 8, 2011 by Fungus

[Fungus]

1. It's good to see some awareness of risk management beyond the "Bad" Decay + Target = Fell process expressed here. It's disconcerting to hear this Fell/Leave dichotomy from the land of Conservation Arboriculture, as if trees were only black and white, instead of shades of gray and brown as they are ... all the while with chainsaws at the ready ...

2. roots can be assessed by sounding with a mallet, and probing diagonally to see how thick the woody supporting roots are. They can also be drilled to see how thick their wood is.

3. It does not seem scientific to pose the possibility of extensive lower decay, instead of advising the assessors to use their hands on the tree and learn facts from them instead of bandying theories about based on *possible* growth of decay fungi.

4. all the while with chainsaws at the ready, the owner(s) should dam well get a paid, objective, second opinion.

 

1. On what factual evidence is your continuous accusation of mal practice by European arborists, tree workers and tree technicians based ?

2. So that's how one assesses the softrot caused by M. giganteus at the lower side of major tree roots making beeches and some other tree species - you know for sure - extremely vulnerable of windthrow ?

3. How about your total lack of knowledge of or expertise on tree species specific interactions between biotrophic or necrotrophic parasitic wood degrading macrofungi and trees ? And how do you assess the different types of woodrot with your hands ? Now there's a true "professional" bandying "b......t" THEORIES on how tree assessment should be done.

4. By whom ? Not by you, I suppose.

[treeseer]

1. On what factual evidence is your continuous accusation of mal practice by European arborists, tree workers and tree technicians based ?

 

Reading the posts in this thread--rigging challenges contemplated before diagnosis is done. No dis to Europeans--it's everywhere.

 

2. So that's how one assesses the softrot caused by M. giganteus at the lower side of major tree roots making beeches and some other tree species - you know for sure - extremely vulnerable of windthrow?

 

Yes, getting physical evidence of strength loss is useful. This documents fungal strategies, to go along with the theorizing.

 

3. How about your total lack of knowledge of or expertise on tree species specific interactions between biotrophic or necrotrophic parasitic wood degrading macrofungi and trees ? And how do you assess the different types of woodrot with your hands ? Now there's a true "professional" bandying "b......t" THEORIES on how tree assessment should be done.

 

Not total, thank you. Rot results in strength loss, which is the first thing to assess in diagnosing tree stability. Species of fungi helps predict the prognosis of future spread, and the tree response.

 

Any second opinion from anyone not selling removals would be a good start.

 

If you could kindly respond to the tree issues and lay off personal attacks that would be nice thank you.

[RobArb]

Ok the beech with merip, it gets reduced on recommendation from yourself, client is happy, tree falls over, client not happy, contractor blamed and sued for mis recommendation, unfortunately we live in a blame culture!

 

Sent from Rob's GalaxySII

[Tony Croft aka hamadryad]

My views have changed on meripilus over the years, i started of going with the consesus that it was a darn right liability, then to looking at why it wasnt always such, i started to believe there might be hope for means and ways of retaining meripilus trees.

 

There is not, least in zones of high activity