Calculating weight of lying timber

[David Goss]

We used to do tariffs to calculate volume of standing timber back in the day but that involves counting every tree and cutting down sample trees to get exact measurements. I dont know how its done nowadays but you have no way to calculate how much is there, unless whoever cut it counted every log and then you could go measure a few at random to get an average, but that sounds like more hastle than its worth. If i was you i would just offer a price per ton and be done with it. They may be nice people but they cant expect you to waste all that time working it out, offer the tonnage and explain its not possible to get an accurate measurement till its stacked.

[Quickthorn]

Any idea how many logs are there? Is it feasible to measure the volume of each log?

[Quickthorn]

More to my post, but missed my 10 minute slot, apparently..

 

A less accurate way is to get volumes for a sample, get the average per piece and multiply by number of pieces.

 

Once you've got volume, weight can be found: assume 0.98 cu. metres per tonne for SP. If you want to go that far, you could then make allowances for weight loss if it's been down a while.

[MikeM]

More to my post, but missed my 10 minute slot, apparently..

 

A less accurate way is to get volumes for a sample, get the average per piece and multiply by number of pieces.

 

Once you've got volume, weight can be found: assume 0.98 cu. metres per tonne for SP. If you want to go that far, you could then make allowances for weight loss if it's been down a while.

 

Cheers Quickthorn I think I'm getting there. Guess there are around 60 logs, same lengths variation in diameter, but I could calculate on 7 or 8 sample sizes. I guess its then its a straight (r x r) x pi x height to give a volume for each sample size then x 0.98 to convert to weight.

 

This should give me enough to make an indicative offer to be confirmed by weighing the timber when delivered if the deal goes through.

 

Thanks for your help to all who responded.

[treequip]

They are small woodland owners only just starting to manage their woods and I guess taking a cautious approach and wanting to know the value of their product before committing to the cost of extraction.

 

Things are further complicated by the fact that wood of less than 20cm diameter commands a lower price due to local market factors, so I am actually being asked to make 2 separate offers, one for the timber under 20 cm and another for over.

 

They are good people and I am hoping to develop a long term relationship with them. That’s why I am trying to accommodate their requests. I realise it would be much easier to stick it on a truck and take it over a weigh bridge, but that’s not the deal currently on offer.

 

Incidentally how is the value / price of standing timber calculated? Could I not use a similar approach?

 

 

So not to put too fine a point on it they are beginners and want you to risk making a loss rather than speculate themselves.

 

The price of firewood means that unless the extraction is a nightmare they aren’t going to make a loss.

 

Nice people or not I would either walk away until it is roadside or bid them real low

[muldonach]

Thanks for the responses so far. The problem is it’s not stacked, just lying where it as been felled. The vendor wants to know the price I’ll offer before extracting and stacking on the roadside, so the deal has to be done before it can be accurately weighed.

 

I know what I’ll offer per ton, I was hoping there was a simple way of estimating total weight with the wood lying where its been felled. I’m assuming it’s a 2 stage process of a) work out the volume and b) convert volume to weight. One advantage is that the timber is all fairly straight.

 

I know a more experienced eye could probably get close enough just by looking. Neither the vendorn or I have that experience. I just want to try and come up with a figure that leaves us both feeling the deal is a fair

 

Sorry but this makes no sense whatever to me, if you know the price per ton you will offer then offer it on a roadside basis. The seller should be able to figure out an approximate tonnage for hiimself

 

It appears however that what the seller is looking for is a lumpsum price - If you offer a lumpsum price on an assumed tonnage lying in a wood you need your head examined - unless you have a means of putting it at roadside it is worth exactly zero.

 

A more experienced eye would probably say "I'll get back to you" and forget all about it.

 

If you want to estimate the volume lying then pick a chain of 20-30 logs, measure the mid diameter of every log in the chain and get an average volume per piece. Then count all the pieces - if there is just an artic load lying it is not too big a job.

 

The knock 50 quid off your offer for being dicked about

 

Cheers

mac

Edited November 1, 2011 by muldonach

[john k]

The way I read it is that MikeM is happy to offer them a roadside price per tonne but needs help estimating whether he's committing to buying ten tonnes or 100 tonnes. Seems reasonable to me.

 

If we're only talking 60ish pieces then it should be an easy enough job to count them and measure a few to get a reasonably accurate ballpark figure. I would expect the vendor to do this, but it could be worth an hour or two as a relationship building exercise.

 

If it's too much trouble for everyone why not offer a price per tonne with a maximum of n tonnes so you know you're not going to overcommit?

[Joy Yeomans]

Sorry but this makes no sense whatever to me, if you know the price per ton you will offer then offer it on a roadside basis. The seller should be able to figure out an approximate tonnage for hiimself

 

It appears however that what the seller is looking for is a lumpsum price - If you offer a lumpsum price on an assumed tonnage lying in a wood you need your head examined - unless you have a means of putting it at roadside it is worth exactly zero.

 

A more experienced eye would probably say "I'll get back to you" and forget all about it.

 

If you want to estimate the volume lying then pick a chain of 20-30 logs, measure the mid diameter of every log in the chain and get an average volume per piece. Then count all the pieces - if there is just an artic load lying it is not too big a job.

 

The knock 50 quid off your offer for being dicked about

 

Cheers

mac

 

as mac says; - follow his wise words:thumbup:

 

just offer what you feel roadside pertonne you want to pay, standing timber nd extraction prices for you have no input in what you want to pay at your end?

different sites and terrains mean that standing prices and extraction rates can be wildly different and ballpark figures can soon land the unexperienced in trouble.

joy

Edited November 1, 2011 by Joy Yeomans