AA

[Mr Ed]

Well, you know what they say - 'if you cant beat them, join them...'

[Andy Collins]

The tree company can become approved and then a couple of weeks later lose all their good climbers and be staffed with crap!

 

Ive seen this happen a couple of times Colin, misanthropic or not, its true!! Fact of life, some people are crap workers, not crap humans, they dont care about the job at all, just about getting done as quick as poss and getting back to watch the footie/netball/olympics down the pub.

[MattyF]

I believe that it is true. Certainly they the AA have been talking about it for a long time.

 

I however have some problems with the AA scheme. An AA approved contractor is only as good as the staff that they have at any one time. The tree company can become approved and then a couple of weeks later lose all their good climbers and be staffed with crap! That does not quarantee a good or a safe job for the client.

 

Much better is the ISA Certification scheme were it is the climber/worker that is 'approved', then you should always get a good job for the client.

 

Colin

 

well i agree with that and that was what i told tha AA

i have seen some shocking work carried out by so called approved contactors ........recently though i was invited to tender for a big take down by a parish council but the church of england took over and they only use AA aproved contractors,wich left me feeling a bit bitter especially when i found out there quote was more than double mine and the time and the way it was carried out,HA im think my sister would of been quicker if shw climbed.......any way if i had the time and money i love to go for it and be an approved contractor.

One thing that puts me off the ISA is the american influence whos miss under standings of practices with tree work in europe....that i am not interested in and feel could be bad if they became to big but im all for there training schemes

[Frimsley]

Does the AA make it possible for a small business, ie 1man band with a transit, chipper and a dog to meet its requirements for Approval??

Unless the dog is qualified to carry out an aerial rescue such an outfit is unlikely to meet the AA's H&S requirements

 

Much better is the ISA Certification scheme were it is the climber/worker that is 'approved', then you should always get a good job for the client.

 

From a consumer's point of view this is of limited value. The AA scheme also looks at business practices, health and safety policy, insurance, customer care etc. The ISA scheme assesses only arboricultural competence. Neither approach is ideal.

 

Now combining the arb assessment of the ISA scheme with the customer care focused assessment of Trustmark might go somewhere. Perhaps the UK&I chapter should consider becoming a Trustmark accreditation body Colin?

 

I've been saying for years we need another Arb trade organisation!

 

Yet another trade organisation is the last thing this industry needs! Our fragmented voice is half our problem.

[Andy Collins]

Ok to re-phrase slightly, one man band being climber and groundie, transit truck, chipper and ubiquitous scruffy mutt, (groundie qualified in A/R) is it possible to meet the requirements of Arb Approval?

[Peter]

As far as recommending that AA Approved Contractors are used, I think the clients will decide who to use, whether they are a little old lady, or a large borough council.

 

I dont think I'd want my tree work done by a little old lady, or a large borough council either, come to think of it!

[MattyF]

andys right though! are local aa contractor was told by the arb officer he would never work for north herts DC again after he saw them working...they might try getting back in now the arb officer retired this year and the new one might not of been forewarned

[ArbjobsNick]

Been a member of both organisations and both have merits.

 

Unfortunately both are membership based organisations it is not in their interest to police their members as this may result in loss of members and fees.

 

As Ed said earlier what is needed would be an independant UK trade association as per Corgi recognised and promoted by the goverment as a trade standard , I don't believe either ISA or AA schemes are recognised in such a way at this time.

[Yorkshireman]

I think the main gripe is the feeling that some elements of the industry are trying to shoulder out others , which in some sense is just normal business practise ,

however to trail around to large bodies ie the churches as a Voice of the industry & the industry standard setting body is nothing more than over inflated ' especially when As ARB jobs nick metions they are self opointed as such :

I Agree a standard is required Although that needs to be decided on the businesses profile & customer base take for instance 'trustmark' is not all its cracked up to be ' a government lead initiative, that is in their words aimed toward the private sector, personally We are going for the Iso Standard Which means nothing to the general public, but is taken very seriously by the business sector, As it looks at the quality aspects of the business & its framework ,which is annually re-verified, then the prove of our abilities is up to us on a day to day basis , in business you are only as good as your last job,

As MattyF says it matters not what bodies you belong too a crap job, will not get you included the next time.

Groups that fly this Sector banner are being damaged by absolutly shocking work carried out under its flag, & well short of best practise on occasion

This is compounded as the un enlightened customer are therefore using on recommendation a poor company providing a poor service at well over market value based on the premise that they have been vetted & must therefore be good !

For the reasons stated by others ie :cost, staff leaving, greed, blinkered vision of the potential skill base available

Imo We dont need more groups : so long as those who wish to approve & represent do so ! Fairly, whilst not alienating any others, who are its prospective future.

I origanlly posted the Tender annoucement

re The Only AA contractors need apply

to get this matter in the open

As its ring fencing contractors some of which in the opinion of some on this forum' to be well short of the standard

So in short AA directors ( I know you'll read this )please Dont encourage it

You are most definatly damaging your 'future' membership & the puplic monies that are being

spent are not Open To best Value & thats a whole new can of worms !!!

 

All The Best Guys

+ Merry Christmas Lol

rgds Iain

[Frimsley]

Been a member of both organisations and both have merits.

 

Unfortunately both are membership based organisations it is not in their interest to police their members as this may result in loss of members and fees.

 

We're not talking here about policing members. This is about particular schemes of accreditation, and both organisations do police these in one form or another. AAACs have to reassessed on a regular basis - can't remember how often off the top of my head. And there is a clearly defined complaints procedure.

 

ISA CAs must demonstrate commitment to continuous development by completing the requisite number of CEUs (continued education units) and as I understand it certification is swiftly withdrawn if they don't.

 

It is in the interests of the AA to police the scheme because if they don't the scheme will fall into disrepute and no one will be bothered to enter it. But policing is necessarily limited to periodic reassessment and chasing up complaints. To have a band of roving inspectors running round doing spot checks would be expensive; this cost would be passed on to the contractors and even fewer companies would be able to afford to be assessed. But if you've got a specific issue with an AAAC, grass them up. It doesn't do any of us any good to have dodgy contractors around.

 

As Ed said earlier what is needed would be an independant UK trade association as per Corgi recognised and promoted by the goverment as a trade standard

 

Trustmark? But at the moment there are no Trustmark approved scheme operators in the arb sector and the only organisation I'm aware of looking at this is... the AA

 

Going back to the beginning...

 

I actually can't see the problem with the AA taking out full page ads in YP. It's their job to promote the scheme. They charge contractors a fair whack for assessment and continued membership of the scheme and those contractors who choose to go through with it deserve to get value for money. It's business. You make choices. You decide to get your competitive edge by staying small and keeping your overheads down, or you decide to invest in getting yourself through the AAAC assessment, pay your fees, put your prices up to cover those costs but reap the benefits of having the AA spend your money on promoting the scheme. That, folks, is the nature of capitalism.

 

If you want to have a full page ad in YP, go ahead, pay for it. Because that's what AAACs have done. Someone earlier suggested that ordinary members are subsidising promotion of the AAACs. I don't believe this is the case, though I have to admit I haven't checked. But I believe the scheme is pretty much self financing - assessment and promotion are funded by the fees charged to AAACs

 

And by the way, perhaps not one man, transit chipper and dog, but my three nearest AAACs are all fairly small companies. The fourth nearest is Glendale.