False Anchor / Re-direct friction management.

[ben-jammin]

Evening all, so have started needing to use redirects more in my climbing and have been choking off a tape sling and running both lines of my rope through a Karab clipped in to the sling. Positioning wise, no issues, however, the ropes can then cross over, twist and other such behaviour adding friction to my system which I'm trying to have as little of. Anyone got any quick fixes or obvious solutions I'm clearly missing? 2 Karabs???

[Neil Frost]

Have you tried attaching a double pulley to the krab? I've used it a couple of times, and it seems to work well. Don't think my line crossed over.

[Mark Bolam]

2 crabs alright, DMM revolvers.

 

Pricey solution, but a good investment.

[ben-jammin]

I had thought about one like this

 

http://www.frjonesandson.co.uk/products-page/climbing-equipment/pulleys1/35kn-isc-small-double-swing-cheek-pulley/

 

But unless the ropes are feeding through the pulley in line from the original anchor point, say I'm working at a 90 degree angle from the original, just as an example, then it looks like one leg of the rope might jump up and still cross or rub over the other??

[Neil Frost]

Yeah that's the one. I liked it, but have got to be honest and say I only used it for a couple of brief limb walks, it was almost 90 degrees from my anchor, and I think I ended up about 40 degrees from the re-direct. Ropes were fine, but perhaps someone with more experience of them would be better to comment.

[ben-jammin]

2 crabs alright, DMM revolvers.

 

Pricey solution, but a good investment.

 

Might have more wide ranging applications though than a double pulley so might long term be better money spent?

 

That or a pinto and a couple of karabs and an existing prussic and start practicing M-Method? Mind, that's two oval karabs (preference) AND a pulley!!

[slack ma girdle]

Yeah that's the one. I liked it, but have got to be honest and say I only used it for a couple of brief limb walks, it was almost 90 degrees from my anchor, and I think I ended up about 40 degrees from the re-direct. Ropes were fine, but perhaps someone with more experience of them would be better to comment.

 

This is the problem with re-directs, as it can cause your main anchor to fail. The branch is at is strongest when you are hanging directly beneath your anchor. The further out you go the higher the chance of limb failure, this is further increased with redirects.

The use of a second rope will spreed your weight accross the crown, and the stress on limbs will be at a reduced angle.

[ben-jammin]

So perhaps M-Method might be better to start using? Setup the second anchor point, use a pinto and a prussic to capture the slack so it doesn't equalise, load it, slacken off main anchor and work off second until I no longer need it??

 

Little more gear intensive than 1x sling & 1x karab, i guess it depends how much im going to use it... And how much time / frustration it might save.

[slack ma girdle]

So perhaps M-Method might be better to start using? Setup the second anchor point, use a pinto and a prussic to capture the slack so it doesn't equalise, load it, slacken off main anchor and work off second until I no longer need it??

 

Little more gear intensive than 1x sling & 1x karab, i guess it depends how much im going to use it... And how much time / frustration it might save.

 

What is wrong with a second rope, less gear intensive, and can be used on smaller trees, therefore more useful.

 

KIS (keep it simple)

[ben-jammin]

Arguably, depending on what you climb on, a second rope could be more gear intensive as you'd require one extra rope, 1x friction cord and the karabs and a pulley if that's how you climb. M-Method, your still only using the one rope but the other bits and pieces as well.

 

I'm already on a HC so M-Method is quite doable though if your on a prussic setup then perhaps second rope is less intensive???